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 (CLARY Olivier) writes:
>The group Joe and I mentioned is I think South and West of Baca~u,
You may be quite right with this one, I agree. I remember a csango
colleague of undergraduate studies of mine from that group. He had a Romanian
name and nothing of his uttered sounds betrayed his origin. But I also still
remember a "nanny" who baby-sat me when I was four, she was at the
Roman-Catholic seminar in Iasi, and the language she used to speak in was
clearly more of a mixture. She was from a village nearby Bacau. How would you
say Louisie the Monkwoman in Hungarian? The Romanian version of this would be
the name of that village.
>Where is that Northern group?
It's around the town of Roman, although there are Roman Catholics
possibly of some csango descent even further North into the Romanian part of
Bucovina. One village is called Rachiteni (it suggests a tree by the water of a
river - Siret, in this case - sort of similar to the willow). Another,
surprisingly, is Mircesti, where Romanian poet Vasile Alecsandri was born.
Another one is Butea (sort of The Barrel). This is where my father is from.
Nearby is Miclauseni. This one is clearly evocative of the Hungarian name
Miklos. And so on, I could go on.
Are there indications they have been
>Hungarian?
None that I know of, but influence of coexistence with Hungarian is
clear in whatever I read about. And coexistence does not exclude mixture.
(for instance, Catholic churches, now or in the past)
As far as I know, all we csangos or csango descendants are
Roman-Catholics. What I know is that my ancestors were Transilvanian refugees
who came into Moldova by 16-17th centuries because of oppressions that both
Hungarians and Romanians suffered from in Transilvania. You will find
beautiful, cathedral-like, majestic Catholic churches if you travel down there.
When you write to Monsegnior Gherghel, you may also ask for a 1997 calendar. If
it is as beautiful as the 1996 one, you will almost agree me. Most of the
photos in the one in 1996 are of simple facts of life, accompanied by bible
quotes, but they often include photos of beautiful churches in various Csa'ngo'
villages. Surprisingly, paradoxically, and maybe even annoying for some people,
is the photo on January who features Monsegnior Gherghel himself exchanging a
suggestive look with Romanian Orthodox Patriarch Teoctist. Obviously, it is
about Christian fraternity, and the accompanying bible quote could vanish all
the comments about such a photo.
It is thusly, with faith in God, that we csangos survived through
history. Being looked at with suspicion from both Hungarian and Romanian
communities, and asked "What are you, guy, Romanian, or Bozgor?", a typical
csango would answer "I'm a Roman-Catholic, sir".
What are
>these changed sounds,
The most important is called "siffles S-sound", I think. The \,{s} = sh
sound in Romanian is often uttered like s. My father utters a Transilvanian
lastname like Jurj exactly as you utter it in English, whereas Romanian is a
"what you read is what it sounds like" (phonetical) language, and the Romanian
uttering of a lastname like Jurj sounds closely to the French Georges. And so
on. All these are documented. Both Romanian and Hungarian references can be
found in an article recently published by a csango-Romanian history undergrad
student in the "Credinta" ("The Faith") almanac 1996 published by Episcopia
Romano-Catolica of Iasi. They used to have an Internet site that can be reached
by way of http://www.nordest.ro. I think. I spent already half an hour trying
to find it, but that site seems to get reorganized. The editor is father Cornel
Cadar, and his name was surely mentioned on the home page that I used to know.
I posted it myself on soc.culture.romanian and even sent copies to Hungarian
friend Szabo Istvan (who taught me "minden jo't") from Sweden and asked it to
be translated in Hungarian. But soon I was claimed religious fanatic, and
Romanian agent, and even harassed at school by an already notorious Internet
terrorist on soc.culture.romanian and  , with the
large acknowledgment and support from the Romanian Internet community in there,
and I recently destroyed all those postings from the spring of 1996, so that I
now cannot help even with postings in Romanian version anymore. I do hope you
will be able to retrieve anything yourselves, since I have not recovered from
the consequences of this harassment and am still fear to post or contribute
with anything even on this newsgroup, and most likely will disappear without
notice even from here, as how I gradually disappeared from everything that
includes Romanians.
is it sure they are due to Hungarian influence?
I don't know for sure. It still remains to be seen, studied, and
discussed, and maybe decided one day.
>Regards:
>--
>-- Olivier Clary
Ok, minden jo't!
Eddie
--
We live, in an age of cages, the tale of an ape escaping in a search of a truth
he can use. (Peter Sinfield)
 http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~antoniu
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