Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 524
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1995-12-19
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Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Magyarul Magyarorszagi Levelezotarsat Keresek (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
2 BADMOUTHING HUNGARY (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
3 contact wanted in budapest (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
4 HUNGARY Reply to Constantinu Donea (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: BADMOUTHING HUNGARY (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
6 9th century history of Hungary (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
7 A Great Christmas Site - MUST SEE! (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: People's Court (mind)  45 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Magyarul Magyarorszagi Levelezotarsat Keresek (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hello:

        Lehetoleg Bp-i vagy kornyeki becsuletes levelezotarsat keresek
akivel a kesobbiekben uzleti lehetosegekrol is gondolkozhatunk. Kerlek
valaszolj E-MAIL-en, mert ritkan olvasom ezt a csoportot.

Valaszodat varva udvozol,


Attila
+ - BADMOUTHING HUNGARY (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

One moment please while I don my asbestos underwear...

> From: Andras Szucs >

> Those badmouthing Hungary in this list should be ashamed. Of course,
> they won't. This is just another of the series of offenses that Anti-
> Hungarian Defamation League fortunately has a record of.

I am sorry but I must take issue with this, no matter how incensed you are,
this statement is worthy of some sort of secret police... "bla bla..that we
fortunately have a record of" (i.e. you seem to be saying "look out mate if I
am ever in a position that I am able to hurt you", either financially or
whatever)

> Again, it might be important for the readers of this list to be reminded:
> "Note *WARNING* label below, ............ etc

Now you can't have it both ways, either people can say whatever they like (so
why the earlier statement) or the list is moderated. Take your pick.
(I know, I know, you can say what you like too.)

Whew!
        GarryC.

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# than a house full of feasting,        # PEC (New Zealand) Ltd     Marton #
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+ - contact wanted in budapest (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi, I'm looking for a contact in BudaPest,
any one here live there?

email replies ....

thanks a million
+ - HUNGARY Reply to Constantinu Donea (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

*.: You wrote (somthing like that) :
>1.6 million Hungarians < 7 million Romanians in Transsylvania
>... it is simple math.
           ^^^^^^^^^^^
    My opinion is that it is not only a simple math.
  Taking an example from woman/man relationship, you may have heard :
  One woman is more dangerous than two...
  (So 1 > 2 ???)
  I do not want to go behind this statement, but you understand.
  The complexity behind the relationship in Transsylvania is also
  bigger than it can be explained as
    "1.6 million Hungarians < 7 million Romanians"
  For example there are towns where more than 90% Hungarians live,
  and the ratio you mentioned is also changing locally as you get closer
  to the Hungarian borderline.
    There are many examples where the answer just does not exist :
  For example : In 1.6+7 = 8.6
                what is the % what the number 1.6 has contributed to 8.6 ?
                There is answer !
                (1.6*100/8.6 = 18.6 % Hungarians in Erdely.
                 I just met with somebody, he was sure that the % is bigger.)
  But :         In 1.6*7 = 11.2
                what is the % what the number 1.6 has contributed to 11.2 ?
                There is NO answer !
                (Only 1.6*100/11.2 = 14.29 % Hungarians in Erdely?
                 Oooooops! The flexible statistics ...
                 Let me be cynical a bit, do not you work
                 in the Measure of Standard in France ?)
  I am really not kiding !
                              Dr.Dr.K.S.
+ - Re: BADMOUTHING HUNGARY (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

One of the problems with authoritarian political systems is that it causes
emotional and psychological damage to some people.  With that in mind, can
anyone on this list suggest a successful '12-step programme' that the guy
from SILLYCONVALLEY could enroll in?

Joe Szalai
+ - 9th century history of Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Thanks to all who took the time to send information regarding the
books on the 9th century history of Hungary, especially Dr Panagiotis
Takis Antonopoulos, Eric G, and Bob Hosh. Sorry to seem ungrateful at
the tardiness of posting thanks (I don't have all of your direct
e-mail addresses captured on my printout of titles) I have also been
offline and away from the computer attending to some family health
concerns for the last week.  I have always been discouraged by the
lack of attention given by English speaking historians regarding
central european history.  Especially with respect to Medeivil times
one would think that only France, England, and Germany experienced the
Middle Ages. The Magyar raids are mentioned only in the context of
their defeat at the Lechfeld in most sources, and yet a whole body of
English scholarship deals with the comparable raiding of the Northmen.

I will have the librarians working on my list of titles posthaste!

                                  Thanks again to all and Merry Christmas,

                                             Paul Gregor
                                               
+ - A Great Christmas Site - MUST SEE! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In the holiday spirit?  Looking for holiday related gifts, recipes,
stories, letters, or events?

Our sites include: Christmas, Valentines, Saint Patrick's, Easter,
Mother's / Father's Day, July 4th, Halloween, Thanksgiving.


Visit "Simply Christmas" at:
<URL:http://holiday.ritech.com>;
+ - Re: People's Court (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Pe1ter Hidas writes:
> On the subject of the Bardossy trial.
> The trial can be considered problematic but the court was not a kangaroo
> court. The Peoples Courts were established by the National Assembly and the
> Hungarian government. They were recognized by the Allied Powers. Akos
> Major, a military judge during the Horthy regime, tried Bardossy. He was
> assisted by a jury or other judges delegated by the various political
> parties. Hungarian laws were cited during the trial including the Law
> 3/1848. Bardossy was able to defend himself and even to challenge the
> jurisdiction of the court. Major controlled the hostile audiance and the
> British member of the Allied Control Commission once warned Major not to
> take on the role of the prosecutor. Rakosi intervened to to silence
> Bardossy but this action was ignored. The procedure was not that much
> different from French jurisprudence or pre-war Hungarian one.

While I agree with him that the court was formally correct, having seen the
documentary "A ne1p neve1ben" I still feel it was not in essence an impartial
trial. The audience was indeed hostile, and it is not clear how a country laid
waste by the policies of the accused could have mustered an impartial
audience (or an impartial judge, for that matter).

In fact, the whole set of post-war trials, including Nu2rnberg, suffers from a
serious problem: the criminal category "crime against humanity" was invented
ex post facto. The rule of law means, among other things, that the statute has
to be on the books before the crime is committed. Roman Law already has some
provisions to this effect.

But what could one do? The crimes were enormous. There was no way to legally
remedy the situation while staying entirely within the legal tradition, so the
Allies chose to amend the law. The results were, for the most part,
commendable: the notion "crime against humanity" is a good one, worthy of
becoming part of the legal tradition. I shed no crocodile tears for those
who were executed in these trials of questionable legality.

> Our reservation conserns the problem that the court could not prove, without
> reasonable doubt, that Bardossy was responsible for starting the war. The
> charge of responsibility for the Cold Days was dropped.

I think it's impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt, since he was not,
just by himself, responsible for starting it (or Hungary's participation in
it). But he was a major player, and certain official acts were performed by
him. So when you ask the question: who should be singled out for primary
responsibility, his name would come up #1 or #2 on anybody's list.

Andra1s Kornai

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