in fact I did not write that.
I was just pointing out to whta marx was talking about (i.e.
feuerbac)
the point is that opium in those days was a
painkiller and it may very well be that what we should
take the quote to mean is that religion helps "killing" the apin of living.
on marxism and arsenic, we can agree without further ado
a
>
> adriano p. PALMA writes:
> >
> > > Now if I weren't lazy, I'd just do a Veronica search in the on-line
> > > Marx-Engels library and find the quote.  But I am.  So I only exhort--
> > > go and look it up and see if I'm not right!
>   Hugh agnew> >
> > > 
> > >
> >
>    the quote is "religion is the opiate of the masses" and it was in
> the context that religion is used by the establishment to take
> people's minds off real problems and get them thinking of the
> unsolveable and unknowable other world.
>
>     To which my own reply (not yet quite so well known) is:
>
> Marxism is the arsenic of the masses.
>
>      (those who know pharmacology will know why.  for those who don't,
> arsenic in tiny doses is said to improve the feeling of well-being,
> brighten the eyes, and strengthen the physique.  It then quietlty
> accumulates in the body until the dose is large enough to permanently
> remove all your worries and cares from this world)
>
>
>     Jan George Frajkor                      _!_
>  School of Journalism, Carleton Univ.      --!--
>  1125 Colonel By Drive                       |
>  Ottawa, Ontario                            /^\
>  Canada K1S 5B6                         /^\     /^\
>        /   
>   o: 613 788-7404   fax: 613 788-6690  h: 613 563-4534
>

I just thought of this:

How about the expression "couldn't find an audience"?
I think it relates the exact same thought as its Hungarian
counterpart mentioned in the Subject header.
"Didn't find acceptance" leans in a different direction IMHO,
implying rejection rather than indifference or non-interest.

I have encountered the above English version many times in the
exact same context as "nem tala'ltak meghallgata'sra".

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
--
Tamas "Systematic Weeping Fun Guy" Kovacs

On Mon, 29 Aug 1994, To:ro:k Pe'ter wrote:

> And, for example, Voltaire said also about the church: "Tiporja'tok el
> a gyala'zatost!". ("Ecrasez l'infame!", if I remember well). Does it
> mean that he was also socialist? It's quite a surprise for me...

Oh please! The Romans were killing christians. Every Roman family
could choose which God or Gods to patronize and if that God failed them,
the Romans were allowed to beat or even drown the God (That is their
statues).

The Husitas were against the church as well (although of the movement
originate with Jan Hus, a catholic priest). Still only during the 1950's
did some Czech Historians called them early communists.

Dear  Hungary  listers,  thanks  for  all  the  responses  to  my
          translation inquiry; it certainly did  not fall on  deaf ears, it
          found an audience and acceptance, and  it  did not remain without
          any response.  Ken     

In article > "H. MARC"
> writes:
>
>The VCR tapes in Hungary are VHS, like they are everywhere (almost).  PAL/NTSC
>/SECAM is simply a matter of diffrent encoding formats just like a 3.5 inch
>macintosh disk won't work in a PC (without conversion).  I am sure you can
>find somebody to convert the tape for you.  Most of the big video specialty
>stores can otherwise there are numerous mail order places advertised in back
>of magazines....marc
>
>BTW, Am I wrong in believing that Hungary uses SECAM and not PAL?  Does
anybody
>know for sure?

Hmm...everything recorded in Hungary runs just fine on my PAL/NTSC VCR, so I
guess they use PAL (like everyone else in Europe :) )

/stefan
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 Stefan Gimeson     UNet:    | Let's build a nightmare-nation
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 S-223 63 Lund     Voice:(0)46-394280        |           L  I  F  E
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> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 -

I really didn't plan to continue the discussion on church and state but two
postings which appeared in my mail box this morning, makes me "pick up the
pen."

To Andras:

>The idea that a literal reading of the
>Bible is incompatible with rational thinking goes back to the Enlightenment
>(which has this name for the specific reason of removing the dark of
>medieval religious thinking and replacing it with the light of intellect)
>and has nothing to do with the socialist movement. (BTW I don't accept the
>reasoning that if Marx said something it must necessarily be wrong -- blind
>negation is almost as bad as blind acceptance.)

No one said that anti-religiosity started with Marx and no one argues about
the origins of secular thinking--we all know about the Enlightenment.
However, I disagree that it "has nothing to do with the socialist movement."
Marx's theories were grounded in materialism; spiritual matters had no place
in his so-called philosophy. (I say so-called, because I don't consider
Marxism a branch of philosophy.) The socialist movement, which after all, was
a Marxist movement, inherited both the materialism and the anti-church
attitudes of the founder. By the time Lenin and followers managed to
established the "first socialist state," that state became an officially
atheist one, where churches were converted into stables and museums for the
propagation of atheism. In the Soviet Union, and in the satellite countries
to some extent, serious attempts were made to stamp out any kind of religious
feeling in the population and convert them to militant materialism. At the
same time churches were persecuted. This official atheism and the state's
attitude toward religion and spirituality had an adverse effect on the
spiritual well-being of the population. I think this is also true in Hungary.

I am not religious, as by now I think everybody on this list knows. I have
been in a church maybe two dozen times (and that includes weddings and
funerals) since the age of fourteen. I am no fan of the official Hungarian
Catholic church, mostly because of my two very unhappy years at a Catholic
school between the ages of ten and twelve. I also think that Hungarian
churches in general behaved in a fairly cowardly manner during the Rakosi
regime and after (with the exception of Mindszenty himself). But I think that
there ought to be a healthy mix of the religious and the unreligious--the
Hungarian mix is not healthy because, like in other former Socialist
countries, a natural selection process was interfered with.

Further:


>>This anti-religious stance of the socialist movement has remained a
constant
>>all through the nineteenth century and later, and, unfortunately, this
>>Marxist tenet had very ugly consequences later in the Soviet Union and its
>>satellites. Therefore, I would not argue anything of the sort.
>With due respect, this is the weakest argumentation I've ever seen from
>you. It boils down to the following: the socialists were anti-religious,
>the socialists were bad, therefore being anti-religious is bad. Try the
>following: Hitler built roads, Hitler was bad, therefore building roads
>is bad.

I think I already answered this. Here I just want to say that I am somewhat
surprised that you do not see a connection between Karl Marx and the
establishment of Soviet Russia. However, tortuously Lenin rewrote Marxism, it
was still a child of Marxism.

Further:

>According to the last issue of HVG, the budget of the Academy was cut
>by 80% (adjusted for inflation) over the past four years.


Thank you. I read it too. And we agree that sooner or later the connection
between research and state should be completely severed.

Eva Balogh

In article >, "H. MARC"
> writes:
..
[deleted text]

>...  When I arrived in Paris in June I was shocked to notice all the
McDonald's
>that have popped up since I was last here.  THere are over thirty of them in
>Paris now.  And in a country known for it's quality cuisine!  I just don't
>understand this strange phenomenon.  Boston is becoming more European, Paris
is
>gobbling up American Plastic Food.
>......marc horchler
>20 Rue du Moulin Vert
>     75014, Paris FRANCE
>     

Thus it follows from the above that gastronomic preferences converge as do
political, ideological, cultural trends,  So now we can talk about
"the gastronomic convergence theory."  This is food for thought for a
serious discussion group (whose bark is worse than its bite).  Do you wish to
"chew" on this?

Victor F. Marx

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is amazing to me to see how much respect Marx has, who advised everyone
how to change society, but couldnt even support his own family. They were
starving more often than not. While the Bible and Christian faith is made
fun of and made irrelevant, simply because it doesnt support the idea that
all knowledge and wisdom come from man and his intellect, which rather likes
to create self serving systems, which naturally cant survive.
Fred H.