Marc ) wrote in his answer to my mail (concerning Poul
Gelencser's priest):

> Wait!!!  Hold it, I can live without Easter or Xmas but, no Thanksgiving?!?
> Not only is it one of the few secular holidays that we celebrate but is one
> of the few not tampered by market forces...

Alright, Marc!  If you insist, I'll leave Thanksgiving in the calendar (with a
better name, hopefully!).  It is a very American holiday, I haven't encountered
it elsewhere.  Probably the aussies celebrate that too.

Since it has been, and still IS, a religious event, for me it fell natural to
mention it among the others.  Christmas and Easter are also "just" free days
with plenty of food for most of us here in Europe.  In the Scandinavian
countries Easter is an entire week free of work.  Most people flies away to the
south on package holidays and wouldn't dream about visiting a church.  When I
was in my late teens, sometimes I went to the midnight service on Christmas
Eve, just for fun and to see a few of the known faces from the local
administration and party functionaries.  There were many hypocrites around at
that time.  Perhaps plenty of those are there all the time, due to human
character and not because political reasons.

A general observation: The USA legislation seems to be much more secular than
the European statute books, while a huge percentage of the USA population is in
spirit and practice religious, in contrast to the pretty secular European
population (especially in the Northern and Western part).  This subject would
deserve a separate discussion.

As far as the food is concerned, these days most of us here in the "better"
part of the world can eat whatever we like and whenever we like (perhaps except
of Russian caviar and vintage Champagne).  Goulash is certainly not restricted
to a special day, I get it about once a week in the corporate canteen (!) and
it is gradually improving, although it will never reach the quality of my
wife's once or twice a month production of real GULYAS.  Apricot brandy can
also be enjoyed at any time, alas, not in the canteen...

In the "bad old days of communism" - just to put some Hungarian reference in
this mail for the userlist's sake - I belonged to the privileged few by being
an inhabitant in a childrens' home.  There we got beef (a sort of) on Fridays
only, fish often on Tuesdays but never on Fridays, and pork on Saturdays.  Much
later I recognised the anti-religious lines in these menu-choices and happily
adopted them.  Being more sophisticated (and a bit richer too) in these days, I
put other forbidden food on the table, e.g. shrimps, when entertaining my
jewish neighbour.  I also stuff myself with food from morning till sunset on
every day of the Ramadan.  My wife punishes me with turkey dishes, what I
dislike a lot.

For the rest, your jewish friends would happily celebrate other religions'
holidays if they can get free of work.  This is, of course true for my friends
too, IRRESPECTIVE to their religion.  As far as the market forces are concerned
I don't believe that this opportunity has been overlooked by them.

Sorry for not being funny.  Religion is a long thorn in my side.
Gabor

On Tue, 13 Sep 1994, The Only Reader wrote:

> > > >...
> > > May I advice all for you initiation of Prof. Be'la Lipta'k Yale Universty
> > > into this discussion.? SB
> >
> > Why?
> >
> >                                                                 Attila
> >
> He is the leader of American Hungarian Environmental Found (or something
> like..) .He deal with The Dam and its result on environment.He has
> arrenged a demonstration before installation of 'C variant'. /if your 'why'
> concern this aspect /
>                     S.Be'la.

Is he the same person who wrote on the topic in the mid-80's? I do
remember, while in undergrad, that somebody from Yale was invited to
Hungary by the Government to give an outside (not a Communist Yes Man) opinion.

                                                        Attila

For those members who live in the San Francisco Bay Area. There will be a
Koncz Zsusza concert in Can~ada College, Main Theatre, Redwood City, right
of the 280 on October 22 (Saturday) at 7:30 p.m.

For tickets please call Andrea Horvath at (408) 973-9134.

There are limited number of tickets (she will hold this only concert in
the U.S.), so please call as soon as possible.

The concert is organized and sponsored by the Mini Korvinak and co-sponsored
by the Posta Bank.

                                                        Attila

George Frajkor revealed on 12 Sep 1994:
> Still water sinks in. Flowing water does not.
 Now this is amazing! Is it the velocity or the force in vertical
direction that interferes with the horizontal movement caused by the
gravity (which I understand is still in force under the Slovakized
riverbed)? Either way, it is a bigger blow to Newtonian physics than
Einstein et.al. could ever achieve. Too bad we can't learn any details
at least until the International Court enlightens itself with the
findings available only to those in the know ;-<...

-- Zoli , fascinatedly giving up on physics

ATTENTION INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS
****************************************************************

        We are interested in conducting a survey exploring the severity of
problems experienced by and willingness to use University Counseling
Centers by international students enrolled at American educational
institutions.  The purpose of the study will enable University Counseling
Centers and International Student Offices to develop programs which are
more sensitive and effective in meeting the needs of international
students on college campuses throughout the United States.
        If you are an international student, on an F-1 visa, a non-USA
citizen and you are interested in participating in this survey please send
us e-mail at:

                
                        OR
                .

        Please type in "survey" under the subject heading and "Yes, I am
interested in the survey" under the message heading.
        We will send you a copy of the survey to fill out as soon as
possible.  Confidentiality of all respondents will be respected.  If you
know anyone else in your educational institution who will be interested in
doing this survey please forward this information to them.
        Thank you very much for your attention and participation.
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        Department of Counseling,
        Heidelberg College
        Tiffin, OH 44883
****************************************************************

> -     >             There is no such a thing as MORALITY...
> -
> -
> -     Remind me to count the silverware after you visit.  :-)
> -
> -     --Greg
>
> Brilliant response!!...marc horchler

You forget that two word responses are forbidden.

--Greg

Eva Durant writes:
> >
> > Eva Durant writes:
> >
> > > Please spell out for me, which of the human standards of behaviour are
> > > exclusively Christian.
> >
> > Who has made that claim?
> >
>
> Everyone who stated, that without religious education/church
> society will not function properly, there were such or similar
> assertions.

Please quote a few, it's so helpful.

--Greg

In reply to your message of "Wed, 24 Aug 94 10: 28:42 PDT."
             >
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 11:29:26 -0700
From: 


 From RFE/RL:

HUNGARY STAYS AWAY FROM NATO EXERCISES. Hungarian Defense Ministry
spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Lajos Erdelyi told MTI on 12
September that his ministry lacked the necessary funds for the
army to participate in the "Cooperative Bridge 94" maneuvers in
Poland....


What was that fuss about, a while back?  Whether or not the Horn
government supported Nato membership?  Perhaps in this instance,
the PM also personally supported participation?  But didn't feel
qualified to make a decision better left to the budget office?



--Greg

If anybody happens to be interested in the transition of Central & Eastern
Europe (bet you are) AND can manage to be in Prague from the 17. to the
19. November, this may be interesting:


An International Conference on

"Transformation in Eastern Europe"

        at the

Centrum Doktoranskyck

A Mangerskych Studii

CR-160 41 Prague 6

J. Marthio 2/407


Organizers are the Austrian Political Science Association
and the Czech Political Science Association

There will be workshops about
- the role of the state in the economy: deregulation and privatization
- ecology and economic development (my two favorites)
- administrative reform and development of a "civil society"
- migration, minorities and nationalities
and at least eight more...


For some infos you can talk to me (after all MIT provides e-mail, the Austrian
Political Science Association doesn't), for a complete set of the infos and
for registration please contact (if possible till the end of the month):

Gertrud Hafner
Stumpergasse 56
A-1060 Vienna
Austria
tel: -1-59991-166
fax: -1-597-0635


See you there!

Peter Biegelbauer

Gabor Ellmann wrote:

>Alright, Marc!  If you insist, I'll leave Thanksgiving in the calendar (with a
>better name, hopefully!).  It is a very American holiday, I haven't encountere
d
>it elsewhere.  Probably the aussies celebrate that too.

No way, we are not THAT yankeefied over here.

>As far as the food is concerned, these days most of us here in the "better"
>part of the world can eat whatever we like and whenever we like (perhaps excep
t
>of Russian caviar and vintage Champagne).

This has been changing fast in Hungary too: I had Chinese food in Budapest that
was better than most in Australia.

>Goulash is certainly not restricted
>to a special day, I get it about once a week in the corporate canteen (!) and
>it is gradually improving,

And what do they mean by that ?

My pet hate is the kind of "paprika's" beef (or lamb, less often other meats)
stew with carrot bits and chopped celery stalks (yuk) in it, thickened with
corn starch (arghhh) to a jelly-like consistency and sweetened, that is often
dished up in canteens in Australia.  Of course, it is proudly declared
"Hungarian goulash" - if I could only find the person who dreamed up that
"improvement" of the original !


George Antony

Paul (Gelencser) in a private note asks whether demonstrations were
planned to protest the actions of the municipal authorities in Cluj
(Kolozsvar) to the attempted removal of the statue of the Hungarian King
Matthias Corvinus. The following, from the Newletter of HARC (Hungarian
American Human Rights Council, P.O. Box 75, Western Springs, IL 60558),
gives a brief overview of the recent events there.

C.K. Zoltani
________________________________________________________________________



>From HARC Volume 5, Number 2:

        Tensions Mount as Statue Crisis
        Continues...Dig "Temporarily Suspended"...
        Funar Denounces Hungarians in Extraordinary Council Meeting..

        by Jutka Jokay


Gheorghe Funar's announcement to conduct archeological digs on the site
where the statue of Matthias Corvinus, the medieval King of Hungary and
Transylvania stands, has led to enormous demonstrations and conflict in
Rumania. Funar, who is mayor of Cluj-Napoca (Kolozsvar) and chairman of
the extreme ultra-nationalist Party of Rumanian Unity, previously
planned to replace the Latin inscriptions on the statue with Rumanian
ones, thus transforming Matthias Corvinus into a Rumanian King. Funar
alleges that the statue, which is a historical relic, stands on an
archeological site which must be excavated. RFE reports (June 9, 1994)
that on June 8th more than 2500 people protested the decision made by
municipal authorities to dispose of the statue. The demonstrators, who
were surrounded by heavy military force, called for the immediate
resignation of Funar. Octavian Buracu, an ethnic Rumanian who chairs an
association for ethnic dialogue, cautioned that the removal of the
historic statue will lead to violent confrontation in Cluj.

The demonstrations and rallies continued on June 24th and July 7th
during which several thousand ethnic Hungarians protested Funar's
excavation plans. A spokesman for President Iliescu told reporters that
Iliescu wanted a peaceful resolution to the conflict and denied that the
planned excavations were an artificial nature (RFE June 27 & July 11,
1994).

On July 8th the Rumanian government issued an official communique which
stated that the archeological digs would be temporarily suspended and
equipment removed until a committee investigated the situation. A
government spokesman called the HDFR's appeal to UNESCO and
international forums regrettable and unwarranted. Funar called the
communique invalid. On July 11, in an extraordinary session of the Cluj
municipal council, reports Radio Bucharest and Budapest (RFE, July 12,
1994) Funar claimed that the HDFR "misled Rumanian and particularly
international public opinion." Funar also called on President Iliescu to
condemn the declaration of the Hungarian government which opposed the
excavation of the Hungarian statue. In language amazingly reminiscent of
the Rumanian dictator Nicolae Ceausecu, Funar's document labels the
Hungarian's government's protests as a "blatant attempt to interfere in
Rumanian affairs." Ethnic Hungarians fear the removal of the statue for
excavation purposes is only an excuse to destroy the ancient Hungarian
monument and an attempt to destroy Hungarian ethnic identity in
Transylvania.

On Mon, 12 Sep 1994, Attila Gabor wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Sep 1994, The Only Reader wrote:
>
> > > The Slovak name for the place is, I believe, Gabcikovo, and my understand
i
ng
>  i
> > >...
> > May I advice all for you initiation of Prof. Be'la Lipta'k Yale Universty
> > into this discussion.? SB
>
> Why?
>
>                                                                 Attila
>
He is the leader of American Hungarian Environmental Found (or something
like..) .He deal with The Dam and its result on environment.He has
arrenged a demonstration before installation of 'C variant'. /if your 'why'
concern this aspect /
                    S.Be'la.

On Tue, 13 Sep 1994, Attila Gabor wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Sep 1994, The Only Reader wrote:
>
> > > > >...
> > > > May I advice all for you initiation of Prof. Be'la Lipta'k Yale Univers
t
y
> > > > into this discussion.? SB
> > >
> > > Why?
> > >
> > He is the leader of American Hungarian Environmental Found (or something
> > like..) .He deal with The Dam and its result on environment.He has
> > arrenged a demonstration before installation of 'C variant'. /if your 'why'
> > concern this aspect /
> >                     S.Be'la.
>
> Is he the same person who wrote on the topic in the mid-80's? I do
> remember, while in undergrad, that somebody from Yale was invited to
> Hungary by the Government to give an outside (not a Communist Yes Man) opinio
n

> A kiadoi, szerkesztoi, szakertoi tevekenyseg finanszirozasara nem
  > talaltunk ezeddig semmilyen megoldast. Varjuk kedves olvasoink
  > javaslatait, otleteit.


Dear Mr Orban -

I'm a journalist in Budapest, Hungary. In 1991 I co-founded _Budapest
Week_. Lately I've been migrating over from newsprint to newsgroups,
collecting resources and contacts. I write a column in the _Budapest
Businesss Journal_ called Hungary Online.

I'd like to interview you for this column. I'm very interested in the work
you do with MET and would like to know more. Could we meet?

Magyarul is beszelek, de inkabb beszelek mint irok.


=steve=



-----------------------
Steven Carlson
Critical Mass Media Inc.
Kiraly utca 15 II/3
1075 Budapest, Hungary
Tel:+361-121-3400