Ausztraliai la'togatok, fe'l e's majdnem kenguruk! Ha utaztatok mostana'ban haz
a
innen a "nap e'gette" vegerol a vilagnak es van valami ugyes otletetek
vagy hasznos tana'csotok irjatok mar egy par sort.

Tudom a legeggyszerubb az hogyha bemegyek a Lufthansa-hoz es azt mondom
" a Gyuri vagyok, a negy elso osztalyu jegyert jottem, Ferihegyig es vissza"
de reme'lem hogy olcsobb modjat is sikerul talalni.

Tobben javasoltak a Lauda Air-t, es mindenki ova intett az a'zsiai le'gi-
ta'rsasa'gokto'l.

Elore is koszonom hogy szakitotok idot ra'm!

>>email: <<

yea, and "new" found independence isn't so easy to carry either.  
Margaret

VERSIRO VERSENY


Nevezzen be a -THE POETRY CLUB- (Kolteszet Klubja) "METAMORPHOSIS"  
(Atvaltozas) cimu uj versiro versenyebe!
Klubtagoknak a nevezes harom versig ingyenes. 
Nem klubtagoknak $5 nevezesi dijat kell bekuldeniuk minden egyes vers utan', 
amivel palyazni szeretnenek ezen a versenyen. Klubtagsag egy evre  $10.
Barmilyen temakorben es formaban, maximum 20 sor terjedelemben,  
ket kategoriaban: magyarul es angolul is irhat.
Mindket kategoriaban a harom elso palyamu penzjutalomban reszesul.
Nevezesi hatarido: 1995. December 31. 

Cimunk  : 	MIKLOS GALATA	- The Poetry Club - (Kolteszet Klubja)		
	 	  		Box # 60598 GRANVILLE PARK  P.O.	
				VANCOUVER, B.C. V6H  4B9 CANADA
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------


ESZAK-AMERIKAI MAGYAR NAPTAR

Mar most megrendelheti a -THE POETRY CLUB- (Kolteszet Klubja)
altal kiadasra kerulo 1996-evi Magyar Naptarunkat.
Tobb mint 20 kortars Eszak-Amerikai Magyar kolto es iro
versevel illusztralva. Ara elovetelben: $12.00 plusz $2.50
postai koltseg. A rendeleseket a beerkezes sorrendjeben
teljesitjuk.
Kizarolag Money Ordert vagy Personal Cheque-t tudunk elfogadni.
Cimunk: -THE POETRY CLUB- P.O. BOX 60598 Granville Park P.O.
	Vancouver, B.C.    V6H   4B9     CANADA

Please read the FAQ or have a look at the URL's mentioned in it.

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 
"For my assured failures and derelictions, I ask pardon beforehand of my
betters and my equals in my calling." 		- 	Rudyard Kipling

On Mon, 21 Aug 1995, Dale Decker wrote:

> I'M TRYING TO GET INFORMATION IN REGARDS TO OBTAINING HUNGARIAN
> PUBLICATIONS (NEWSPAPERS/MAGAZINES) WRITTEN IN HUNGARIAN AVAILABLE
> OVER THE INTERNET OR EMAIL.  PLEAST POST AN ARTICLE OR EMAIL ME AT
> 
> 
> 
>

***[Greetings from Hungarian-American HyperNews]***
  ***[       http://mineral.umd.edu/hahn/        ]***



August 29.  Chicago, IL
August 30.  Los Angeles, CA
September 2. Washington, DC
September 4-5, meeting of Hungarian Reformed Clergymen,
               Ligioner
September 8. Magyar Haz, New York, NY

--
For DC residents:

Istvan Bakos, secretary of the WFH (MVSz) 
(World Federation of Hungarians), would like to meet
the Hungarian community in Washington, DC during 
his visit to the USA. He is going to give a talk 
at 4pm on Saturday, September 2nd, 1995.

Kossuth Haz
2001 Massachusetts Ave., N.W.
Washington, DC 20036
Phone: (202)-328-2630

Dear ?,

Your in luck..."Graduate School, USDA" is giving lessons this fall.
It's an introductory class taught by Szabo Eva Mondays 6:00 to 9:00.
(According to the catalog she is well qualified!)

Cost $194 from 9/18 to 11/27. You can earn 2 credits as well!

Call (202)690-4280 for registration. You can do it by phone.

Good Luck

Horvath Attila

In article > ,
 writes:
> >The region has large gipsy minority (even majority on some place) and 
>     >they commit suicide as well.
>     
>     yes, but at what rates?

I can not support my statement with statistics but I think that their
ratio of sucide is similar as the ethnic Hungarians. As a matter of fact,
we have a slang word for committing suicide, the 'falcolas' , which is
almost exclusively used by gipsies for this activity.

>     >In case of the above mentioned region it is a 'custom' that the old
>     >sick people commit suicide because they don't want to be a burden
>     >on the family. 
>     
>     is it part of an ancient creed or tradition going back to the 
>     nomadic/tribal days?

No, it is not that old. It goes back app. to the 18th -19th century.
This was a custom of peasantry, interestingly, the not so poor
peasantry (but not the rich as well). They tried to save their rela-
tive "welfare" with such customs. Some were even more brutal:
old sick people were not fed or just promptly 'put to sleep' .

The ancient tradition is different. It is true that a warrior tribes-
mans's relationship with death is much closer, intimate  than  this
relationship for a tiller of the soil, or a christian. As a matter of
fact the conquesting Hungarian tribes sacrified their spiritual
leader to their gods when they arrived to the Carpatian basin.
The history of Hungary was almost a continuous war, and the relati-
onship to death remained close, intimate along the centuries. You
can clearly see this in the works of our poets or in our folk songs.
  
>     >You may take into account the alcoholism
>     
>     but there are countries worse off at this chapter (russia, non-finish 
>     scandinavia, france and the wines_oh_la_la_la_la).

Do you think ? We are not world champions neither in wine, beer
nor spirits consumption, only  second in spirits drinking  and
we are in the leading groups in the other two. France drinks wine,
Russia drinks vodka, Hungary drinks everything.

Interestingly , our extravagant drinking habit goes back also to the
18-19th century, as a result of serfdom. The soil on the Hungarian
lowland  has excellent quality, the serf could earn more than enough
for living, but because of the serfdom was not able to build his own
farm. So they drank everything away. On places where early land re-
form took place and the serf got property in hand the rent of the inns
dropped drammaticaly.

>     >why would hungarians have a higher 
>     >dosage of pessimism as a people (or nation) than others?

Huh...i don't know.
    
>     and if they don't, we must consider the possibility that there are 
>     significantly less effective treatment/coping methods offered by 
>     counselors/psychologists to suicidal-prone individuals.

As we know psychology and psychiatry was considered bourgeois
remnants by the marxist. It means it was not the favoured science
by the communists, which in case of CCCP meant execution under
Mr. Stalin.
Hungarians don't go to psychiatrist with their problem because
they don't know that such thing exists or they don't trust in them,
because there is not enough qualified p. around, because it costs
money, and because so many neurotic are around it is considered
the normal. :) :) :)

>     and that 
>     hungary, estonia, and finland share this common problem.  and, if so, 
>     why?
    
>     could we point out to the language_mentality link ?

I don't believe in it. There are similar agglutanating languages like
Hungarian even in the IE-group but those guys are not big suiciders.

Tamas

>T. Kocsis > wrote:
     >
     >Not the whole country is suicidal. The center is a 
     >southeast-Hungarian region where in certain villages the suicidal 
     >rate is sky-high. Every single family there have suicide even usualy 
     >more than one. In the last few year however the north-Hungarian 
     >steel-industrial region took the lead. The steel idustry is collapsed 
     >in Hungary, the unimployment there now exceeds 50 %. The region has 
     >large gipsy minority (even majority on some place) and they commit 
     >suicide as well. For this reason I don't think the suicidal 
     >tendencies are genetically predetermined.
     
     well, pre-determined may be too much of an unequivocal term in this 
     context.  i think "related" would be a better word because it does not 
     imply a clear, direct genetic path.  we also have to take into account 
     the heavy dilution in the gene pool.
     
     in the previous message, i also speculated on a linguistic-related 
     explanation.  
     
     >The region has large gipsy minority (even majority on some place) and 
     >they commit suicide as well.
     
     yes, but at what rates?
     
     >In case of the above mentioned region it is a 'custom' that the old
     >sick people commit suicide because they don't want to be a burden
     >on the family. 
     
     is it part of an ancient creed or tradition going back to the 
     nomadic/tribal days?
     
     ....because i think this is an ubiquitous feeling among old people,  
     more or less and anyways..... 
     
     >You may take into account the alcoholism
     
     but there are countries worse off at this chapter (russia, non-finish 
     scandinavia, france and the wines_oh_la_la_la_la).
     
     >and the neurosis. The last one is very important. We are a 
     >pessimistic nation, and we are lacking of samples of personal 
     >strategies to apply in such dire straits....or in other way, the 
     >suicide is the Hungarian 'solution' for neurosis.  For example, the 
     >professorin who started and led the long-running Hungarian 
     >anti-suicide program committed suicide couple of years ago..
     
     yes.  but this is the symptom and not the cause.  pessimism/neurosis 
     is a trait found in many people.  why would hungarians have a higher 
     dosage of pessimism as a people (or nation) than others?  
     
     and if they don't, we must consider the possibility that there are 
     significantly less effective treatment/coping methods offered by 
     counselors/psychologists to suicidal-prone individuals.  and that 
     hungary, estonia, and finland share this common problem.  and, if so, 
     why?
     
     could we point out to the language_mentality link?
     
     -cristian

In article >,
A YASUTOMI > wrote:
>
>Can somebody get the English translation of
>Sandor Petofi's poet "Szabadsag, Szerelem!"?
>
>Szabadsag, szerelem!
>E ketto kell nekem.
>Szerelmert folaldozom
>Az eletet,
>Szabadsagert folaldozom
>Szerelmemet

Though only a poet can do justice to translating a poem, so take the
following only as a a raw translation:

Freedom and love!
The two things I want.
For my love I sacrifice my life,
For freedom I sacrifice my love.
------

BTW, you could substitute "liberty" for the "freedom" above because
Hungarian has only one word for both of them: "szabadsag".
But then, after most of my life spent in the US, I still cannot figure
out the correct use of those two words in English.  "Liberty" just feels
a bit older to me than freedom.

Joe Pannon

Kedves Peter,


Persze ha egy kicsit kozelebbrol nezi az ember, mindennek mas az 
optikaja.
Az orszag altalanos legatyasodasanak vannak ,,torteneti'' vetuletei is. 
Sokan igyekeznek alkalmazkodni a megvaltozott korulmenyekhez, elsosorban 
ugy, hogy  nem elszakadva a szakmatol  kiegeszito foglalkozas utan 
neznek, ki a TV-ben, vagy a radioban igyekszik ,,apro forintra'' valtani 
tudasat, vagy eppen a konyv- es folyoirat-kiadasban tevekenykednek, mint 
en is.Nagy vonalakban elmondhato, hogy a szakma [tortenesz] altalanos 
krizise meg melyebb, mint az orszag gazdasagae, mert itt (a szakmaban) 
meg nehezebb a valtas bar azt kell mondanom nem mindenkinek. Vannak 
ugyanis olyanok, akik  matematikailag talan jobban ertheto  egyszeruen 
csak elojelet valtanak (pl.:= -()), s azt probaljak elhitetni, hogy az 
elmult korszak alatt vegig ellenzekiek voltak. A radioban hallottam  ugy 
ket evvel ezelott  ebben a mufajban mara  ,,klasszikussa'' valt 
szoveget, amikor is egy neves kozgazdasz holgy kijelentette: 1962-ben 
azert lepett be az MSZMP-be, hogy azt belulrol tudja bomlasztani. Azt 
azert meg nem allitotta, hogy az o tevekenysegenek eredmenye volt a 
rendszervaltas de az is lehet, hogy mar azt hiszi.
Masrol: ugy latszik vege a koalicionak. Horn  leplezendo kormanyanak 
tehetetlenseget uj miniszteri tarcakat akar a kormanyban (Nagy Sandort 
jeolte a gazdasagi csucsminiszteri posztra), az SZDSZ viszont erre 
beintett. Kery Laszlo szerint ugyan csak riszaljak magukat a koalicios 
hazasfelek, de nekem az a velemenyem, hogy mar mindket part a valas 
mellett dontott. Horn egy kicsit ,,besokallt'', s igyekszik olyan 
benyomast kelteni, mintha az SZDSZ miatt allna itt minden. Az SZDSZ 
viszont egyreszt hajthatatlannak mutatja magat  elsosorban a 
Bokros-csomag vegrehajtasat illetoen , masreszt erzekelve az igen nagy 
foku tarsadalmi ellenszenvet, kifele ,,balrol'' elozonek lattatja magat. 
(Csaladi potlek, oktatas-, kultura finanszirozas kerdese, gesztus az 
ertelmiseg fele stb.) Miutan ugyanis erzekeltek azt, hogy az ertelmiseg 
nagy resze egyre pesszimistabb, s fordul el a politikatol, (iveve persze 
az olyan karrieristakat, mint pl. Pokol Bela a Jogi Karrol, akiknek 
mindegy milyen part szekeret toljak, csak a hatalom kozeleben legyenek, 
vagy meg inkabb a hatalom birtokosaiva valjanak) ovatosan igyekeznek 
kihatralni a kormanybol. Itt ugyanis megint egy olyan valasztas lesz 
1998-ban, amelyben az lesz biztos, hogy melyik partra nem szavaznak az 
emberek, s varhato az MSZP megsemmisito veresege.
Ez meg akkor is igy lesz, ha az ember jol tudja, hogy ez a kormany 
kenyszerpalyan mozog, hogy a megszorito intezkedesek szuksegesek es 
elkerulhetetlenek. En ugyanis ugy latom, hogy az allampolgar elvisel 
ilyen programokat, de csak akkor vesz benne aktivan reszt, ha tudaja, 
hogy meddig es milyen erovel kell a nadragszij-csatnak gerincet nyomnia. 
S erre a kerdesre az mar regen elcsepelt valasz, hogy ket evig, s akkor 
jon a fellendules, mert ezt a ,,szlogent'' hallja kozel husz eve, s ezt 
csak akkor hinne el, ha azt is megmondanak neki, hogy mikeppen megy majd 
vegbe ez a folyamat, milyen etapjai lesznek. Ezt azonban melyen 
eltitkoljak a hatalom birtokosai  minden valoszinuseg szerint azert mert 
ilyen cselekvesi programmal nem rendelkezik egy part sem.
Persze az is lehetseges, hogy a magyar gazdasag jelen helyzeteben 
,,kezelhetetlen'', s ujra es ujra napi valsaghelyzettel kell megkuzdeni, 
de meg ezt a gondot is meg lehetne osztani a tarsadalommal, ha a 
,,civilt'' nem nezne le a hatalom oly gogosen, vagy nem tekintene 
kiskorunak.
Van egy masik erzesem is, hogy egy  ki nem mondott  dologban az osszes 
part egyetert, nevezetesen abban, hogy az EU-hoz es a NATO-hoz 
csatlakozas a panacea, s addig kell valahogy kihuzni. Csakhogy mi van 
akkor, ha egyik szervezetbe sem vesznek fel bennunket, s nem ,,teritik 
szet'' Magyarorszag problemait, ill. annak megoldasi feladatat Europa 
fejlettebb orszagai kozott, akkor 25 evig fogjak mondogatni, hogy csak a 
kovetkezo ket evet kell kibirni? Bonyolult es ellentmondasos a helyzet. 
Nem csupan arrol van szo ugyanis, hogy a gazdasagot sikerul-e rendbe 
tenni, hanem arrol is (s ez legalabb oly fontos), hogy vegre valahara 
szaz ev nyuglodese utan  meggyokeresednek-e a liberalis elvek a magyar 
tarsadalomban, vagy megint az arvalanyhajas ,,nepi-konzervativ'' 
gondolkodas nyer teret tobb evtizedre. S azt kell mondjam: vesztesre 
allunk. Az SZDSZ komoly taktikai hibat kovet el, amikor szotlanul hagyja 
peldaul Gero Andrasnak azt a kijelenteset, hogy az egyik hosi emlekmu 
fallikus jelkep. Ezt semmilyen korulmenyek kozott nem engedheti meg 
maganak egy part, kulonosen nem augusztus 20-an, amikor az ilyen fajta 
nemzeti erzelmeket meg papi segedlettel is szitjak. Meg merem 
kockaztatni azt, hogy ezt a kijelentest 1998-ban meg sokszor fogjuk 
visszahallani nepi-nemzeti partoktol, mintegy idezet-formaban.

In article > ,
 writes:
>i am obvioulsy speculating since i lack a basic knowledge of 
>     finno-ugric languages.

AFAIK, the old Finno-ugric linguistic group doesn't exist anymore.
There is a new grouping system consisting of five distinct groups
inside the group of Uralian languages. This info came from a linguist
last year and was discussed in soc.culture.magyar then.

Tamas

Would appreciate any information about the KOHN & BUCHLER
Families from what is now NITRA, Slovakia, but was under
Hungarian rule years ago. I am seeking information for my
mother-in-law (nee Margit [Manci] Kohn) who was born in
Nitra in 1913. She left in 1940. It is hoped that some
information exists about her family that was murdered by
the nz nazi murderers. Is it possible there was one or
more survivors that no one knows about? Perhaps they do
not know that Margit survived.
-- 
Regards,
Keith A. Reinsdorf
Northridge, California

tobb nyuszi viccet kerunk

Greetings.

Can someone tell me a common Hungarian nickname that a parent would 
call the smallest male child?

I have a friend whose mother caalled him that name, and he bet me I
could not find out what it is.

Thanks.

Joe San Filippo
Las Cruces, NM USA

tobb nyuszi viccet kerunk

*szet-* was a prefix of which I was not aware (koszonom). Now that I
know of it, I found it in Orszagh.
I apparently do not have the comprehensive list.
Can someone send me one?