wrote:
> 
> I doubt you can pass the phisical, when they test you for Mongolian
> genes.  Imagination wont count then.
> Fred H.
> ---
>  ţ [TN71]
> 
> >> Slipstream Jet - The QWK solution for Usenets #UNREGISTERED

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Interesting proposition!  However, Ms Egorova will be helping. She seems to 
be quite creative in picking isolated sentences out of context and making a "ca
se".

                    Will remain - genetically - Mark

soc.culture.croatia
[3] ARE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS?



Why are you capitalizing (SCREAMING) your question?

Hungarians are of Mongol stock (Huns), however, approx. 1/3 are
 estimated to be of Croatian stock. Many of the most frequent last
 names in Hungary are of Croatian origin (Hrvat=Croat and many 
subversions, Kovac= blacksmith, and many others). Huns 
disconnected an interesting ethnic connections - Croatians, Slovaks
 (not Chechs) and Ukrajinians (the three are ethnically much more
 connected than other Slavic nations - linguistically any Croatian 
can fairly easily understand Slovak and Ukrajinian, but not at all
 Chech, Polish, Russian, etc.) Huhgarian language is not an
 Indoeuropean language, however. Slavic, like Roman and Germanic,
 groups of languages, are.

I need your help
My late father (died 8/8/96) left a large number of diaries 
written in the OLD Hungarian Stenographic system.

Any comments on How, Who, Where etc. to help me decode it will be 
appreciated.
-- 
Ilan Szekely     (prefered e-mail: ) 
-- 
/_______________________________________o \o \/ \o
| Ilan Szekely, Macintosh Consultant     \/|\ |  |/
| Dental School's Computer Lab            \| \/ \/    
| E-mail:               \/  /
| Phone: +972-2-758571, Internal 88571       |_/
| E-mail(2):     |
\____________________________________________O
Visit <http://www.angelfire.com/pages0/szekely/index.html>;

news:

Dear Mr(s).Croat (a.k.a. Hungarian/(Vengir)Magyar-hater)                 
     How the hell could a Magyar have 1/3 Croatian blood/genes/whatever 
in his system? Why the hell would a Slavic Hrvat (Horvat) wanna marry a 
"Mongol" and therefore "Hunnish" Hungarian? Other than Kovács and Horváth 
what other Magyar names come from Croatian? (For your info. the "KOV-" 
from Kovacs comes from KO" meaning stone in Hungarian. In Finnish stone 
is KIVI. In many Ural-Altaic languages, KO- or KI- type words have a 
connatation of "hard", "rock" or "stone" or "solid"! So how could a 
Slavic tribe have taught the faraway Finns what a stone was? You Slavs 
lived in Europe in Southern Poland and Byelorussia (400 AD) while the 
Finns were living in northern Russia (away from any Slavic/Russian 
tribe). Another note on KOVACS - the Ukranian capital name, Kiev comes 
from the same word KO" (Hungarian). The Ukranian chronicles state 
explicitly that the (maybe "Uncivilized"?) Magyars founded the city of 
Kiev and that many Magyars stayed after it was founded! (around 700-800 
AD!)) Obviously you Slavs learned well from both the "barbarian" Vikings 
(Rus' is a Viking name, so is Igor and Vladimir) and the Magyars (the 
CROAT city name Osijek comes from the Magyar Eszék and the CROAT city 
name of Sisak comes from Magyar Sziszek) No wonder you Slavs made such 
great cities, such a great civilization so early! (first big Slav empire 
- Moravian Empire of Svastopuk around 900 AD, first big Turanian 
(including Huns, Hungarians, Turks, etc) empire 1200 BC in Central Asia - 
Chorezmian Empire!) My friend, its so much better to be a barbaric Asian 
than a civilized fool / sukin sin, etc.                                  
                                                                         
                 ÉLJEN AZ IGAZSáG!

Hm... very interesting Barsai úr... If you want to look at some 
grammatical resemblences between Magyar and other languages such as 
Sumerian, Egyptian, Turkish, Mongol, Manchu, Finnish, etc. check out 
thise webpages as a start...                                             
HTTP://EXO.COM/~FREDH/LANGUAGE.HTM                                       
        this web site gives a basic introduction and insight on the 
origin of the Hungarian language and from this site, there are sub-sites 
that lead to another subject areas such as noun cases, prefixes and 
suffixes, pronouns (grammatical stuff) as well as common vocabulary of 
anatomical terms, animal names, plants, colours, adjectives, numbers, 
etc.                                                                     
           Udv s jó szerencsét!

soc.culture.croatia
[3] ARE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS?



Why are you capitalizing (SCREAMING) your question?

Hungarians are of Mongol stock (Huns), however, approx. 1/3 are
 estimated to be of Croatian stock. Many of the most frequent last
 names in Hungary are of Croatian origin (Hrvat=Croat and many 
subversions, Kovac= blacksmith, and many others). Huns 
disconnected an interesting ethnic connections - Croatians, Slovaks
 (not Chechs) and Ukrajinians (the three are ethnically much more
 connected than other Slavic nations - linguistically any Croatian 
can fairly easily understand Slovak and Ukrajinian, but not at all
 Chech, Polish, Russian, etc.) Huhgarian language is not an
 Indoeuropean language, however. Slavic, like Roman and Germanic,
 groups of languages, are.

From Britannica " The magyarization of the towns had proceeded at an 
ASTOUNDING RATE.
NEARLY ALL MIDDLE-CLASS JEWS AND GERMANS, and many MIDDLE CLASS SLOVAKS 
(on whom there was great pressure) and RUTHENES had MAGYARIZED".

soc.culture.pakistan
[2] ARE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS?



Maria Egorov ) wrote:
> ARE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS? (Revised Version)Version 3


> The Hungarians does not look any more Mongoloids for the same reasons 
the 
> Turks in Istanbul
> look European.

> It is also true that the Hungarians of today look European.But their 
> roots are Mongolic.

> From Britannica :(Languages of the world)

> "Racially the Uralic people present an unhomogeneous picture.In general 

> they may be considered
> a bland of Europeans and Mongoloid types,with the more western 
> groups(especially the Hungarians,Baltic-Finnic and Erzya Mardvin 
groups) 
> being strongly European and those of the Urals primarily Mongoloid".

> From " De Administrado Imperio"by Constantine Porphyrogenitus 
(Byzantine 
> Emperor,950AD)

> "These eight clans of the TURKS(Hungarians)do not obey their own 
> particular princes...,They 
> have for their first chief the prince who comes by succession of 
Arpad's 
> family..."
>  

> From The Hungarian Chronicle(1095AD):

> "We (Hungarians) are descendants of the great Huns of Attila".

> From "The Mongols" By Jeremiah Curtin

> "Five groups of Mongols have made themselves famous in Europe:The Huns 

> with their mighty chief Attila,the Magyars,The Turks or Osmanli,the 
> Mongol invaders of Russia..."


> From "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" By Edward Gibbon.

> "The(Hungarians) are distinguished by the Greeks under the proper and 
> peculiar name of Turks,
> as descendants of that people who had conquered and reigned form China 
to 
> the Volga (referring to the Mongols)".

> From "The Cambridge Medieval History" edited by J.H.Hussey.

> "The form ovyypoi,from which are derived the various names current to 
> this day among the people of Europe(Old Church Slavonic,UGRI; Russian,
> VENGRI;German,UNGARN;English,HUNGARIANS;French,HONGROIS;Italian,
UNGHERESI,
> and so on)comes from the Turkic ethnic name ONOGUR meaning TEN OGUR"

> From "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler.

> "We also hear of a fearful encounter which St.Cyril,the Apostle of the 

> Slav,had with a Magyar horde in 860,on his way to Khazaria.He was 
saying 
> his prayers when they rushed at him luporum more ululantes-HOWLING IN 
THE 
> MANNER OF WOLVES".

> From "Britannica"(Languages of the world).

> "Recent study indicates that it is posible to speak of a Uralic racial 

> type,an intermediate stage between the European and the Mongoloid,the 
> basic features of which are medium-dark to dark hair and eye colour,
> relatively small stature and often a concave bridge of the nose".
> (Hungary is part of Uralic racial type).

> From "Britanica" Hungarian.


> "The proto-Hungarians were apparently an ethnic blend of 
Ugric(Mongoloid) 
> and Turkish peoples living in western Siberia...The Hungarians were the 

> scourge of Europe,raiding as far afield as Bremen,Orleans and 
> Constantinople(the English word OGRE-a men eating man,hideous cruel man,

> is a corruption of HUNGAR,attests to their notoriety).


> From "1000 years of Hungary" By Emil Lengyel.


> "(Hungarian) Folklore speaks about NIMROD the giant,who had two sons,
> HUNOR and HAGAR.The former was the ancestor of the HUNS,and MAGOR was 
the 
> ancestor of the MAGYARS."

> "The experience the Magyars left with the Western world was so 
traumatic 
> that even generations later people form the West saw the Hungarians as 

> apocalyptic monsters. Bishop Otto of Freysing spoke of the exterior of 

> the Hungarians as ‘ferocious' at the time of the Crusades :(Their eyes 

> are sunken,their stature is short,their behavior wild,their language 
> barbarous,so that one can either accuse fate or marvel at divine 
patience 
> for having permitted these monsters the possession of an enchanting 
> land)".


> From "History of Hungary" By Denis Sinor


> "Though, geographically speaking, of European origin, the Hungarians 
who 
> settled in the Danube valley were,spiritually and materially, Asiatics, 

> and belonged to the great Central Euroasiatic cultural family whose 
> members lived dispersed form the Danube to China, from Persia and India 

> to the Arctic. The Hungarian bows and arrows...were of exactly the same 

> type as those used in Central Asia. As nomadic peoples generally do, 
the 
> Hungarians disliked towns,and even houses,to which they preferred tents.
 
> According to Otto von Freisingen, as late as the middle of the twelfth 

> century, summer and autumn were still spent under tents".

> "It is, however quite certain that the Mongoloid type was well 
> represented among them(Hungarians), and that they were, on the whole, 
of 
> rather short stature, with short legs, bowed through continuous riding".



> There are many more credible sources like these.

Are they the same "Hun" who also settled down in Northern frontier 
region
of Kashmir known as Hunza. It is said that "Hunzakut" the people of 
Hunza
are desendant of "Huns"
Ishfaq

Dear Fred                                                                
     Are you sure Magyars are not even anthropologically/racially related 
to Mongols and related Mongoloids? (And I mean besides the fact that all 
humans today belong to the species Homo Sapiens!)I personally know 
a Magyar girl who has the small eyes, prominent cheekbones and a round 
head - features that I can associate with (I'm Chinese) (Of course her 
eyes are blue, her hair is blond and her skin is light!) Even so, I once 
commented to her that she looked somewhat like a "Blond Mongolian" (my 
words) I guess maybe she has Turko-Mongolian blood from some Mongol 
rapist of the 13th century (tatárjárás of 1241), or she has a mongoloid 
floating in her family tree (?) or perhaps the proto-Ural-Altaic (i.e. 
Turanian) ethnic group of 4000-3000 BC was partly Mongoloid...(Before the 
Turanians wandered down from Central Asia to Sumeria!)                   
      In another instance, a biology teacher at my school (He's Magyar) 
told me that while he was aware of the probable Sumerian and possible 
Indian (the Indians of South Asia!) relationship with the Magyars, he was 
undecided and indifferent towards Magyar origin theories. However he 
mentioned that his daughter had traces of the Mongoloid eye-fold (i.e. 
"slitty" or "squinty" eyes) like Orientals...                            
       For the record, I believe in a broadly Turko-Mongol-Scythian 
racial origin to the Magyar. (however I do not omit the Sumerians, 
Elamites, Medians, Hurrians and Persians from also being a part of a 
Hungarian's set of genes) While its true most Magyar men do not exhibit 
sparse beards and mustaches (compare one of my countrymen's sparse, 
stringy beards with a thick bajusz of an Alföldi csikó (cowboy)) and many 
do not have eye-folds and flat facial features (this applies to Magyar 
no"k as well), how can we explain my friend's case and the biology 
teacher's daughter? (I'm sure that there are several more of these 
"Mongol"-type Magyars in the world)                                      
                                                                         
        ÉLJEN AZ IGAZSáG ÉS A MAGYAROK!                                  
                                                                         
        Peter Chong

I guess no one is immune to forced assimilation. Obviously, though some 
are more brutal than others. Witness Hitler and the Jewish/Slavic/Gypsy, 
etc. Holocaust, Rwanda - Tutsu vs. Hutu, Bulgaria - Turks discriminated 
aganist by Bulgars, Russian pogroms by Czar in the 19th century, WWII and 
the Japanese militarists (Rape of Nanking 1937, forcing of Japanese 
culture on Chinese, Manchurians, Fillipinos, Vietnamese, Indonesians, 
etc.), Slovakia 1920s and 1990s (discrimination and restrictions placed 
on Magyar minroity - ex. no Magyar allowed to be spoken), 
Romania-Transylvania - Culutral genocide of Székely Magyars by brutal, 
vicious racist Romanian citizens and politicians including Ceaucescu 
during the 20th century, Ethnic cleansing done by Yugoslavs (Croat vs. 
Serb and vice-versa)... Notice how many instances of Slavic 
brutality in history, Ms. Egorova...

 wrote:
> 
> In >,  (Joao Carlos Paulin
o Cabedal Vicente) writes:
> >E.G.Engelbrecht ) wrote:
> >
> >: My argument is that the word "terrorism" should be used only to describe
> >: military actions against unarmed civilians and not military targets.
> >
> >I find that definition to be wrong.
> >Terrorism is any act of indiscriminate violence (such as a bomb or a
> >drive by shooting) that is perpetrated by a group or individual in a time of
> >peace as an attempt to bypass diplomacy and force others to accept a
> >point of view. It doesn't matter who the target is supposed to be.
> >
> >The act of trying to control others by means of fear is different from
> >the presence of a military force to deter the occurrence of conflict.
> 
> Can I claim some dosh as I saw US bombers taking off and
> bombing civilians in Libya when theer was no war on.
> 
> E-mail me and I'll let you know where to send the cheque.

Oh pleeaaase!  You wud make a fine bleedin-hart liberal US democrate.
Wait...Our are one right??  Bombing those fine Libyan patriots that 
the world was not at war with.  The world IS at war with these guys
that kill women, children, etc(non-discriminatory bombers), anywhere.
Retaliation is the only alternative action you have.  They love the
rhetoric of diplomats wanting to 'chastise' them verbally.  They sit
in the safety of their countries confines until time to bomb another
plane or discotheque & laugh at the banter.  Look, how do you deal with
random acts of terrorism worldwide?  Summit gatherings really accomplish
little.  It looks good for an incumbent politician to be seen & heard
at these during a re-election year but little else.  Sadly enough
war, whether declared or undeclared, is ugly.  People die.  Terrorists
are cowards that hide behind civilians & hostages.  The only thing that
they understand is violence.  After the libyan bombing to which you
refer, what was heard of or seen of, Kadahfy???  Little for many years
until recently.  He knows how safe he is now.
>>WMC

I stearted the search for my Hungarian roots about 2 weeks ago. There is
plenty of free info on the net, but you have to  dig VERY VERY deep to
find it. Lots of dead ends and you get caught in a maze of web sites.
I've probably put in around 40 hours and am only now begining to see the
clouds part. You need to dig deep  and be very resourceful and most
important; use your immagination. Dig deep. Be persistent. EACH CASE IS
DIFFERENT. I know this is not the answer you were looking for, but don't
give up in the search for your roots. What age bracket are you in?
	As an out of work and downsized american worker I have had lots of time
to spend on this project. I'm curious, would people such as your self be
will to pay for information that would give you jump start on your
search? Save you a ton of time in your search. What would this type of
jump start info be worth? $10, $20
I have also considered makeing personal contacts with people in Hungary
to set up a on site investigative network. A net work of people to
personaly contact all over Hurgary to personaly visit your ancestorial
home to ferret out family history history. They would be paid for their
time and services. I really feel that this is the only way any one can
get specific info on their family tree with out personaly going to
Hungary. This type of search would end up costing some real money , but
it will produce some resaults. 
What are your thoughts.
Richard Bujaki

If you add EXTRATERRESTRIALS to this story you can have A  SCIENCE 
FICTION book.

In article >,
Peter k Chong  > wrote:
>Hm... very interesting Barsai úr... If you want to look at some
>grammatical resemblences between Magyar and other languages such as

Well, since we're on this subject, I've noticed that Mexican-Indian
paintings are very similar in motifs, color...etc. to Hungarian folk art,
especially from Kalocsa. I mean, the first time I saw a painting of the quetzal
bird, I really thought it had an uncanny resemblance to a Hungarian peacock.
The colors of the quetzal, the way the bird looked were very similar from a
Hungarian portrayal of a peacock. Also, some other items I found similar were
the abundance of flowers and a "tree of life", so to speak. I don't know if
this is just a coinkydink, but the similarities were just too striking
for me.

Also, in rural Mexico, the children are dressed in embroidered clothes that
have a certain resemblance to embroidered clothes from the rural areas of
Hungary.

Just wanted to mention this, since I have never seen such similarities anywhere
else.

Gabor