------------------------------------------ -- EZ A SZÁM CSAK TEXT FORMÁBAN LÉTEZIK -- ------------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Mar 91 22:48:15 EST Subject: *** FORUM *** #180 Tartalomjegyzek: ---------------- Felado : hidas@vxcern.cern.ch Temakor : Hujujuj... Felado : hidas@vxcern.cern.ch Temakor : Konya Imre = Co. Felado : hidas@vxcern.cern.ch Temakor : Konya Imre = Co. Felado : hidas@cernvm.bitnet Temakor : Hujujuj... Felado : csorna@phyv01.phy.vanderbilt.edu Temakor : II. Magyar tortenelem - Angol szempont: Horthy Miklos Felado : posfai@cshl.org Temakor : a genmanipulalasrol =============================================== Felado : hidas@vxcern.cern.ch Beerkezett: Sat Mar 23 12:43:01 EST 1991 Temakor : Hujujuj... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Elnezest kerek mindenkitol, de marcius 17-tol kezdodoen napi 2-3 alkalommal probalkoztam 2 (Egely Gyorgy ill. Trianon temaju) hozzaszolast beletenni a Forumba. Marcius 22-ig a CERNVM accountomrol, legvegul az egeszet atkuldtem a VXCERN-re es onnan a contacts-nak, ahonnan az oda rogton meg is erkezett. Elmondtam a problemat az itteni mail-eseknek, akik megigertek, hogy utananeznek. Meg aznap este az egesz heti "termes" elo- kerult a drotok kozul, es igy az egyik hozzaszolasom 17-szer, a masik csak 14-szer jelent meg. Elnezest, de en sem tudom, mi tortent. Eddig nem kozoltek velem, hogy valamifele prob- lemat talaltak volna. Megegyszer elore is bocs a sajtodompingert, ha ezentul nem kapok valaszt a CERNVM-rol kuldott uzenetemre, utana rogton atkuldom a vax-ra az egeszet. Igy legfeljebb csak ketszer jelennek meg a hozzaszolasaim. Hidas Pal ================== RFC 822 Headers ================== Received: by dxmint.cern.ch (cernvax) (5.57/3.14) id AA00704; Sat, 23 Mar 91 12:22:04 +0100 Received: from CERNVM.cern.ch by CERNVM.CERN.CH (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 2779; Sat, 23 Mar 91 12:23:49 SET Received: by CERNVM (Mailer R2.07B) id 2011; Sat, 23 Mar 91 12:23:47 SET Date: Sat, 23 Mar 91 12:10:46 SET =============================================== Felado : hidas@vxcern.cern.ch Beerkezett: Sat Mar 23 12:45:25 EST 1991 Temakor : Konya Imre = Co. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Az alabbi cikk a Heti Vilaggazdasag XIII/9. (marcius 2.) szamaban jelent meg Revai Gabor filozofus es mufordito tolla- bol. "ROSSZKEDVUNK TELE Megkerdeztek Konya Imret, az MDF frakciovezetojet, mit szol az SZDSZ uj iranyvonalahoz. Konya maximalis empatiarol tanuskodva nyilatkozott. Azt mondta : melysegesen megerti az SZDSZ-t es al- talaban az ellenzeket. Az uj irany az SZDSZ kivalo helyzetfelis- mereserol tanuskodik - igy a rivalis frakciovezeto okfejtese - hiszen az ellenzek a kormanyra jutas lehetosegenek utolso pilla- natat igyekszik kihasznalni. Arrol van ugyanis szo, hogy a koa- licio felelossegteljes munkajanak sokat igero gyumolcsei gyors beeressel fenyegetik az ellenzeket. Eddig is nagy hordereju val- tozasok erlelodtek, es minden a leheto legnagyobb rendben volt, most azonban donto pillanat elott allunk : hamarosan az egesz orszag latni fogja - ezt ismerte fel az eles szemu ellenzek -, hogy hala a gondos gazda onfelaldozo szorgoskodasanak, boseges szuret elebe nezunk. Marmost ha eljon a megvilagosodasnak ezen pillanata, mar keso lesz. Lehet, hogy az orszag eddig vak volt, es nem vette eszre a koalicio aldasos munkajat, de hamarosan nem lehet majd nem eszrevenni, es akkor a hosszu - ki tudja, talan orokkevalo - szuret ugy jollakat mindonket, hogy az ellenzek attol koldul. Az ellenzek tehat felismerte, hogy "most vagy soha". Go- nosz armanykodasainak vegkepp lottek, ha elszalasztja ezt a pilla- natot. Egyesek talan azt fogjak gondolni, hogy ironizalok. En ezt nem is tagadom. De szeretnem tisztelettel felhivni a figyelmet arra, hogy a lenyeg nem az en interpretaciom esetleg ironikus felhangja- ban van. Hanem abban, hogy Konya ur, ha nem is pont ezekkel a sza- vakkal, de ezt mondta. Es Konya urtol tavol esnek az ironikus fel- hangok. O komolyan gondolja, amit mond. Aminthogy a helyhatosagi valasztasok eloestejen is komolyan gondolta, hogy a tisztogatasra es leszamolasra keszulo balatonszarszoi aktivistak serenykedese egeszseges es udvozlendo kezdemenyezes, es komolyan gondolta a taxisblokad idejen - a parlament ablakabol oromeben kishijan ki- zuhano Horvath Balazzsal egyetemben -, hogy a benzinaremelest kove- to ketszaz, ne adj' isten ketezer ellentunteto a "nep", s Jeszen- szky ur is komolyan gondolta, amikor az MDF neveben lefoglalt ma- ganak minden erteket, es hogy igazat mondott, amikor hazudott, es Antall ur is komolyan gondolja, hogy a fegyvereladasok ugyebe is csupan eljarasi hiba csuszott; es mindannyian komolyan gondoljak, hogy a jelenlegi egyre melyulo - es meg ki tudja meddig melyithe- to - gazdasagi es politikai valasagert a harom "Nagy Gonosz", a kommunistak, az ellenzek es a sajto a felelos, nekik nincs benne semmi szerepuk, sot ! Sot mindenfele armanykodasok ellenere hamarosan beernek az onzetlen es onfelaldozo szolgalat gyumolcsei, es akkor jaj az ar- manykodoknak. Sarokba vannak szoritva, es a szabad demokratak uj iranyvonala csupan azt jelzi, hogy ok ismertek fel legelobb ezt a kilatastalan helyzetet (amely a kommunistak, az ellenzek es a sajto szamara a jovo fenyes perspektivajabol adodik), es ok szu- kolnek kinjukban a leghangosabban. Nem tudom, hol a melypont. Nem tudom, hogy az ellenzek ki tudna-e kormanyozni ezt az orszagot a valsagbol. Nem tudom, meny- nyi valosagos es demokratikus lehetosege maradt meg ennek a kor- manynak, hogy oszinte es felelos politikaval stabilizalja a hely- zetunket - s ezzel sajat helyzetet. Mindenesetre nem noveli ezt az eselyt, ha a felelos kormanypart - es a parlamenti frakciovezetot joggal tekinthetjuk e part reprezentansanak - minduntalan teves helyzetertekelessel all elo. Amelyet raadasul abszurdda tesz, hogy komolyan gondolja. Azt gondolni, hogy nem a kormany kudarcai es baklovesei, hanem ellenkezoleg, a sikerek indokoljak az ellenzek koncepciovaltasat, elkepesztoen abszurd, tehat felelotlen. (Ilyen abszurd gondolataim mellesleg nekem is tamadtak az utobbi idoben. Peldaul az, hogy a horvatorszagi fegyvereladas a karpotlasi kon- cepcio resze volt.) Miota rajottem, hogy a legkeptelenebb abszurditast is lehet komolyan gondolni, elhalvanyodtak bennem e tragikomedia nevetesre ingerlo mozzanatai. En ugyanis a fenti urakkal ellentetben, egyre jobban ketlem, hogy az MDF "napsutese rosszkedvunk telet tundoklo nyarra" valtoztatja at." Az ominozus interjut en is olvastam, a 168 oraban jelent meg, ha jol emlekszem. Udvozlettel Hidas Pal ================== RFC 822 Headers ================== Received: by dxmint.cern.ch (cernvax) (5.57/3.14) id AA03002; Sat, 23 Mar 91 13:21:53 +0100 Received: from CERNVM.cern.ch by CERNVM.CERN.CH (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 2820; Sat, 23 Mar 91 13:23:50 SET Received: by CERNVM (Mailer R2.07B) id 2094; Sat, 23 Mar 91 13:23:49 SET Date: Sat, 23 Mar 91 13:23:26 SET =============================================== Felado : hidas@vxcern.cern.ch Beerkezett: Sat Mar 23 12:45:30 EST 1991 Temakor : Konya Imre = Co. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Az alabbi cikk a Heti Vilaggazdasag XIII/9. (marcius 2.) szamaban jelent meg Revai Gabor filozofus es mufordito tolla- bol. "ROSSZKEDVUNK TELE Megkerdeztek Konya Imret, az MDF frakciovezetojet, mit szol az SZDSZ uj iranyvonalahoz. Konya maximalis empatiarol tanuskodva nyilatkozott. Azt mondta : melysegesen megerti az SZDSZ-t es al- talaban az ellenzeket. Az uj irany az SZDSZ kivalo helyzetfelis- mereserol tanuskodik - igy a rivalis frakciovezeto okfejtese - hiszen az ellenzek a kormanyra jutas lehetosegenek utolso pilla- natat igyekszik kihasznalni. Arrol van ugyanis szo, hogy a koa- licio felelossegteljes munkajanak sokat igero gyumolcsei gyors beeressel fenyegetik az ellenzeket. Eddig is nagy hordereju val- tozasok erlelodtek, es minden a leheto legnagyobb rendben volt, most azonban donto pillanat elott allunk : hamarosan az egesz orszag latni fogja - ezt ismerte fel az eles szemu ellenzek -, hogy hala a gondos gazda onfelaldozo szorgoskodasanak, boseges szuret elebe nezunk. Marmost ha eljon a megvilagosodasnak ezen pillanata, mar keso lesz. Lehet, hogy az orszag eddig vak volt, es nem vette eszre a koalicio aldasos munkajat, de hamarosan nem lehet majd nem eszrevenni, es akkor a hosszu - ki tudja, talan orokkevalo - szuret ugy jollakat mindonket, hogy az ellenzek attol koldul. Az ellenzek tehat felismerte, hogy "most vagy soha". Go- nosz armanykodasainak vegkepp lottek, ha elszalasztja ezt a pilla- natot. Egyesek talan azt fogjak gondolni, hogy ironizalok. En ezt nem is tagadom. De szeretnem tisztelettel felhivni a figyelmet arra, hogy a lenyeg nem az en interpretaciom esetleg ironikus felhangja- ban van. Hanem abban, hogy Konya ur, ha nem is pont ezekkel a sza- vakkal, de ezt mondta. Es Konya urtol tavol esnek az ironikus fel- hangok. O komolyan gondolja, amit mond. Aminthogy a helyhatosagi valasztasok eloestejen is komolyan gondolta, hogy a tisztogatasra es leszamolasra keszulo balatonszarszoi aktivistak serenykedese egeszseges es udvozlendo kezdemenyezes, es komolyan gondolta a taxisblokad idejen - a parlament ablakabol oromeben kishijan ki- zuhano Horvath Balazzsal egyetemben -, hogy a benzinaremelest kove- to ketszaz, ne adj' isten ketezer ellentunteto a "nep", s Jeszen- szky ur is komolyan gondolta, amikor az MDF neveben lefoglalt ma- ganak minden erteket, es hogy igazat mondott, amikor hazudott, es Antall ur is komolyan gondolja, hogy a fegyvereladasok ugyebe is csupan eljarasi hiba csuszott; es mindannyian komolyan gondoljak, hogy a jelenlegi egyre melyulo - es meg ki tudja meddig melyithe- to - gazdasagi es politikai valasagert a harom "Nagy Gonosz", a kommunistak, az ellenzek es a sajto a felelos, nekik nincs benne semmi szerepuk, sot ! Sot mindenfele armanykodasok ellenere hamarosan beernek az onzetlen es onfelaldozo szolgalat gyumolcsei, es akkor jaj az ar- manykodoknak. Sarokba vannak szoritva, es a szabad demokratak uj iranyvonala csupan azt jelzi, hogy ok ismertek fel legelobb ezt a kilatastalan helyzetet (amely a kommunistak, az ellenzek es a sajto szamara a jovo fenyes perspektivajabol adodik), es ok szu- kolnek kinjukban a leghangosabban. Nem tudom, hol a melypont. Nem tudom, hogy az ellenzek ki tudna-e kormanyozni ezt az orszagot a valsagbol. Nem tudom, meny- nyi valosagos es demokratikus lehetosege maradt meg ennek a kor- manynak, hogy oszinte es felelos politikaval stabilizalja a hely- zetunket - s ezzel sajat helyzetet. Mindenesetre nem noveli ezt az eselyt, ha a felelos kormanypart - es a parlamenti frakciovezetot joggal tekinthetjuk e part reprezentansanak - minduntalan teves helyzetertekelessel all elo. Amelyet raadasul abszurdda tesz, hogy komolyan gondolja. Azt gondolni, hogy nem a kormany kudarcai es baklovesei, hanem ellenkezoleg, a sikerek indokoljak az ellenzek koncepciovaltasat, elkepesztoen abszurd, tehat felelotlen. (Ilyen abszurd gondolataim mellesleg nekem is tamadtak az utobbi idoben. Peldaul az, hogy a horvatorszagi fegyvereladas a karpotlasi kon- cepcio resze volt.) Miota rajottem, hogy a legkeptelenebb abszurditast is lehet komolyan gondolni, elhalvanyodtak bennem e tragikomedia nevetesre ingerlo mozzanatai. En ugyanis a fenti urakkal ellentetben, egyre jobban ketlem, hogy az MDF "napsutese rosszkedvunk telet tundoklo nyarra" valtoztatja at." Az ominozus interjut en is olvastam, a 168 oraban jelent meg, ha jol emlekszem. Udvozlettel Hidas Pal ================== RFC 822 Headers ================== Received: by dxmint.cern.ch (cernvax) (5.57/3.14) id AA03002; Sat, 23 Mar 91 13:21:53 +0100 Received: from CERNVM.cern.ch by CERNVM.CERN.CH (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 2820; Sat, 23 Mar 91 13:23:50 SET Received: by CERNVM (Mailer R2.07B) id 2094; Sat, 23 Mar 91 13:23:49 SET Date: Sat, 23 Mar 91 13:23:26 SET =============================================== Felado : hidas@cernvm.bitnet Beerkezett: Sat Mar 23 12:45:57 EST 1991 Temakor : Hujujuj... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Elnezest kerek mindenkitol, de marcius 17-tol kezdodoen napi 2-3 alkalommal probalkoztam 2 (Egely Gyorgy ill. Trianon temaju) hozzaszolast beletenni a Forumba. Marcius 22-ig a CERNVM accountomrol, legvegul az egeszet atkuldtem a VXCERN-re es onnan a contacts-nak, ahonnan az oda rogton meg is erkezett. Elmondtam a problemat az itteni mail-eseknek, akik megigertek, hogy utananeznek. Meg aznap este az egesz heti "termes" elo- kerult a drotok kozul, es igy az egyik hozzaszolasom 17-szer, a masik csak 14-szer jelent meg. Elnezest, de en sem tudom, mi tortent. Eddig nem kozoltek velem, hogy valamifele prob- lemat talaltak volna. Megegyszer elore is bocs a sajtodompingert, ha ezentul nem kapok valaszt a CERNVM-rol kuldott uzenetemre, utana rogton atkuldom a vax-ra az egeszet. Igy legfeljebb csak ketszer jelennek meg a hozzaszolasaim. Hidas Pal =============================================== Felado : csorna@phyv01.phy.vanderbilt.edu Beerkezett: Sat Mar 23 13:54:34 EST 1991 Temakor : II. Magyar tortenelem - Angol szempont: Horthy Miklos - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [Bocsanat, ezt ma bekuldtem egyszer, de egy muszaki problemat akarok at Hidalni.] II. Magyar tortenelem - Angol szempont: Horthy Miklos (1/3) A hirekben olvastuk, hogy a magyar tengereszek haza fogjak hozni Horthy Miklos hamvait. Szinten olvastuk (Forum #175) Takacsi-Nagy Pal kerdeset: "Hogy ertekelhetjuk Horthy Miklos szerepet ?". Vajon hogy valaszolnak erre a kerdesre a liberalis nyugati demokraciak ? Mivel ezzel a temaval, ugy mint majdnem minden mas temaval kapcsolatban, az 1945-1990-es bolsevista korszakban Magyarorszagon csak a legegbekialtobb hazugsagokat lehetett irni, nyilvanosan mondani, forduljunk a kulfoldhoz egy targyilagosabb szempontert. Az alabbit Prof. Macartney irta. Macartney tobb even keresztul Magyarorszagon elt, jol beszelte a nyelvet, es a haboru alatt a BBC magyar nyelvu adasat kozvetitette. Sok magyar jellegu kerdesben az Encyclopaedia Britannica Macartney munkajara hivatkozik. Persze Macartney kuncsaftjai angolok voltak, ugyhogy az angolok buneit igyekszik takargatni. Szinten, Horthy a haboru alatt ellenseg volt. Mindennek ellenere ajanlom mindenkinek, hogy a konyvet olvassa el: OCTOBER FIFTEENTH, A History of Modern Hungary 1929-1945, by C.A. Macartney, The Edinburgh University Press, 1961. Harom reszben hozom, mert eleg hosszu ez a beszamolo, nem akarok "circuit overload"-ot okozni olvasoimnak, es akarok alkalmat adni, hogy az olvasok tudjanak csamcsogni az anyagon egy kicsit, es ha kedvuk van, hozzaszolni. Az elso resz beszamol Horthy szemelyes tulajdonsagairol, a masodik resz politikai dolgokkal foglalkozik, a harmadik resz pedig sokaknak egy nagy meglepetest fog hozni. Igy szolt Macartney Horthyrol: (A szamok a zarojelben a labjegyzetre utalnak.) ----------------------------- p.52 [OCTOBER FIFTEENTH] History will assuredly end by conceding to Miklos Horthy more than the average of purely human virtues of heart and character. The present writer's personal acquaintance with him was of the slightest, but he has talked with many men and women who knew Horthy intimately, and has found it to be a general rule that the closer the knowledge, the deeper the personal affection which it engendered; an affection not always coupled with uncritical admira- tion nor unaccompanied by exasperation, but none the less sincere. He was upright, honourable and courteous, generous, open-hearted and affectionate. He led a family life which the breath of scandal never touched. He was deeply devoted to Mme Horthy (indeed a most gracious, charitable and beautiful lady) and to his children, a fact which enhanced the tragedy of the terrible series of misfortunes which overtook one member of his family after another. His enemies declared that he carried this devotion to a point detrimental to the public interest, but if so, it was in good faith, not of calculation. He was, by all testimony, a kind and considerate landlord and master, and open and friendly towards all with whom life brought him into contact. Nor, in the writer's opinion, is there any real foundation for the accusations brought against him of ambition and vanity. He had not elbowed or intrigued his way towards power; it was pressed on him by others, who assured him that it was his duty to accept it, as being the fittest man for it. If history decides that he believed too easily the assurances of his in- dispensability which his partisans lavished on him, this was due not to ambition in the strict sense of the term but to simplicity and good faith, and an overvaluation of the good faith of others. Wishful thinking, of which national weakness he possessed a large measure, perhaps entered into his own estimate of his political judgment; but a fundamental unpretentiousness was probably a larger factor still. To reject a view of his own abilities which was dinned into his ears so unintermittently would have required an intellectual independence and a power of analytical introspection to which he never pretended. Certainly he never attempted to use his position for personal advantage in the meaner sense. He lived quietly, without ostentation or extravagance, on a smaller civil list than Parliament would gladly have granted him, and made no attempt to enrich himself at the public expense. Almost alone of those whom the political tornado of 1945 swept from high places, Horthy had made no provision at all against such an event, and was left in consequence in a near-destitution which he bore with great dignity(1). Beyond any question, he regarded his office as a trust and sincerely sought to exercise it for the welfare and happiness, as he saw them, of Hungary and the Hungarian people. All his serious critics have admitted his purity of purpose. It is less certain whether his personal qualities were in fact the ideal ones for a man who finds a position of supreme responsibility thrust on him in times of exceptional difficulty. His most endearing traits were sometimes those which most fatally betrayed his intentions. Himself always meaning the best, he automatically assumed the same of others; himself devoid of guile or malice, he found it impossible, until convinced by repeated experience or powerful persuasion, to suspect such qualities in others. A plausible adviser could easily lead him into rash decisions, perhaps even into decisions which a more sensitive mind would, on cooler reflection, have regarded as questionable; his gift of wishful thinking then making him sincerely believe that they were in every respect correct. He was particularly susceptible to the advice of soldiers, for his many years in the Austro-Hungarian Navy had not left him unaffected by the k. und k. tradition to which we have referred, which regarded all civilians as inferior beings. If he did take such a decision, he could be talked out of it again if it was not already too late. One who had much to do with him and was deeply devoted to him has asked me to emphasise that Horthy never adhered to a bad decision once he had been brought to see that it was bad. But time for second thoughts was not always given, especially when the question was one which could be represented as falling within his competence as Supreme War Lord. At the best, the method of suggestion and counter-suggestion did not make for stability of policy. LABJEGYZET: (1) The so-called Horthy Fund transferred to Switzerland during the war was not his personal Property and not created by him, although its founder meant is to be used, in certain evcntualities, for his benefit. He did not in the event use it. Another weakness, endearing in itself, was exceptionally detrimental to the conduct of affairs in difficult situations. His friendliness, openness and lack of critical sense, combined with a garrulity above the normal-for he liked talking and was accustomed to hold the floor-led him into a habitual indiscretl0n which was the nightmare of his advisers. He varied neither the tone nor the substance of his conversation to fit his audience, and was totally incapable of keeping a secret, whether it concerned his own opinions or some affair in which he was engaged. Finally, although never moved by thought of personal advantage, lie was not unswayed by personal prejudice in favour of old comrades and supporters, but also against persons whom he believed to have shown antagonism to him- self or his family, He probably did not consciously allow such considerations to affect him, but they did, in certain cases, strongly, although subconsciou sly, affect his decisions. In the main, however, historians will admit that Horthy did his best according to his lights, and will judge his record as Regent favourably or un- favourably according to their own degree of sympathy with his objects. Certainly, his illumination was no newfangled, high-powered neon lamp, but a candle of definitely old-fashioned type and local Hungarian design. He had no other. Not that he was at all a fool: those who rated his qualities of mind very low must find it difficult to explain away his rapid rise to high rank in a profession in which both his Hungarian birth and his non- aristocratic (in the sense in which the Viennese Court understood the term aristocracy) antecedents were distinct handicaps. He possessed a good enough native wit and a considerable stock of practical horse sense, and on more than one occasion proved disconcertingly right where brainier men were wrong. But he was no "intellectual" and no reader of books (he was quite unread in literature, and still more in history, political science and economics), and his intellect, although robust enough, was neither subtle, critical nor original. Heredity and environment working hand in hand in his early days had imbued his mind with a set of values which he was quite unable thereafter to alter or even to question. A great mass of conscious and unconscious assumptions formed a wall of opaque and deeply coloured glass round his mind, which nothing entered except through that glass, and coloured by it. His values were those of his age, his class and his environment. He had been born in 1868, so that his formative years had been those in which the Dual Monarchy was still, in appearance, a great and flourishing Power. His class was that of the untitled but "nobly" born, c0mfortably situated but not indecently wealthy "gentry" which for centuries have been regarded, and have regarded themselves, as the backbone of Hungary. The family was, moreover, Calvinist, and their estate, Kenderes, lay near the Tisza in the heart of Hungary's heart. The world as Horthy knew it in his youth was a happy and prosperous one for him and his kind, and afterwards in retrospect its arrangement and methods seemed to him beyond question to have given better results, not only to his own class but to the whole Hungarian people, and, indeed, to the world at large, than the experiments made on different lines in 1918 and 1919. His life's objective and his moral duty as Regent were, then, as he saw them, quite simply to work for the liquidation of those experiments and the putting of things back on their proper and sure foundations. In terms of foreign policy this meant integral revision, including an outlet to the sea-a point to which as a sailor, he attached particular importance (1). Talk about ethnic frontiers or new principles seemed to him simply perverse; phrases like national self-determination" just not to apply. He could not understand, or believe, that a Croat or a Slovak could prefer to be separated from Hungary, or had any reason to entertain any such wish. Nothing could persuade him, therefore, that Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia were States possessing any real justifications or raisons d'etre, rather than artificial creations which would collapse at the first touch of reality. As to the different national elements among Hungary's neighbours, he shared the views general among his class. The Czechs were puffed-up frogs; the Slovaks, good Hungarians misled. The Croats were a decent people and good sailors. He had a special admira- tion and liking for the Serbs, whom he regarded as a fine, manly people, but quite different from the Croats. It was just a mistake that the two peoples were joined in one State. This inability to take the existence of Yugoslavia seriously, far more than any greed or cynicism, was what prompted his action in April 1941. Nor could he understand that in so acting he was doing any wrong to the Serbs; just as he would not have seen that the Czechs would have had any reason to complain if the Slovaks were prized loose from them. As for the Roumanians, they were a race of pimps and cocottes. His solution for the domestic problem was just as simpliste: the Govern- ment of Hungary should be put back into the hands of its traditional ruling class. He probably did not even regard this as class rule; certainly he did not see that such rule need necessarily mean class oppression. For himself he definitely did not mean that it should do so, and he would never consciously have sanctioned any measure, or any situation, which seemed to him to involve social injustice or the exploitation of the poor by the rich (2). But he also never doubted that there should be rulers and ruled. The two criteria which he kept in mind when choosing a man for an important post were that he should be a good Hungarian and that he should be a gentleman (3), Democracy qua government of the people by the people was not a term which he understood. Socialism was a Jewish heresy, and anyone could see where it led-to putting Hungary under the rule of scoundrels like Bela Kun and Tibor Szamuely. Bolshevism was a power of evil to be rooted out at any cost; if necessary, at the cost of blood. This again was a moral duty from which he would not have shrunk if he thought it necessary, and perhaps did not shrink (4). LABJEGYZET: (1)In a memorandum which he addressed to the Powers in 1946, from prison, he argued that the only satisfactory solution for the Danubian problem was to restore Hungary to her 1918 frontiers, including an outlet to the sea at Fiume. The outlet to the sea was one of the baits which Hitler dangled before him (so far as the documents show, without previous consultation with Mussolini) in April 1941 to persuade him to attack Yugoslavia, and it was this prospect which, I am informed, particularly aroused his initial enthusiasm for the plan. (2) There is no record of his objecting to any progressive social measure outside one field, proposed by any of his Ministers, and no reason to suppose that he would have vetoed, or held up, any measure even ofa pronounced Left-wing character if duly enacted by Parliament. Indeed, he was a conspicuous friend and staunch supporter of Ferencz KeresztesFischer, the most enlightened Minister of the Interior produced by Hungary in the inter-war period. The field in which he was entirely intransigent was, as described below, that of land reform. (3) In his last years, when discussing `with an enquirer his past activities, and in particular his reasons for making or terminating certain appointments, he gave with singular regularity one or the other of two reasons for having dismissed a Minister President or a Chief of Staff: "I came to the conclusion that he was not following a Hungarian policy," or, "I came to the conclusion that he was not a gentleman," (4) Whatever the exact truth about his personal responsibility for at least one famous "White Terror" murder, and while he undoubtedly intervened more than once to stop certain excesses, he yet consistently and conspicuously failed to punish or even to dissociate himself from notorious perpetrators of such outrages.(5) (5)The outrage for which the Left afterwards attributed personal responsibility to Horthy was the murder by thugs of the Osztenburg Detachment (who included the E. Kovarcz whom we shall meet again) of two Left-wing journalists, Somogyi and Bacso, who had written articles against the White Terror. Horthy, when he read the article, is alleged to have said that "when his troops entered Budapest, the authors of them should hang," and later, when a group of people were discussing the articles at dinner, to have burst out: "Why do people always talk? Why doesn't someone do something?" All this is set out at length in Iraiok, I. 106 ff., but I cannot find in the documents evidence that Horthy was really more responsible for the murder than was Henry II for that of Thomas A'Beckett. Other documents published in Iratok show Horthy urging the Government to introduce strong measures, including the "statarium", and to make "warning examples" of Communist agitators, but not encouraging para- military excesses. In holding these views, Horthy was simply concurring with the entire class which had returned to power after Kun fled, and in seeking to realise them, he was fulfilling the wishes of all that class. It may be remarked in passing that, so far as this went, he was a perfect component part of the inter- war Hungarian constitutional machine; and if the moral cowardice of the rank and file of the Government Party was one of the twin pillars which upheld it, Horthy's orthodoxy was the other. But the counter-revolution itself was, as we have seen, divided: Legitimists versus Free Electors, Szeged versus Vienna; and big political issues were to depend on which of these parties, or of their epigones, got the upper hand. Once Horthy achieved the dominating position which, as we have said, became his in the 1930's, it was his influence which mainly determined this issue. It is therefore necessary to state in what relation he stood to the two camps. =============================================== Felado : posfai@cshl.org Beerkezett: Sat Mar 23 19:28:54 EST 1991 Temakor : a genmanipulalasrol - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Egy korabban kozolt irasomtol indittatva Leirer Laszlo (mondatait > karakterrel jelolom) hosszu reszleteket masolt a FORUM egy kozelmult szamaba B. Commoner ( >> karakterek) egy 1987-ben irt cikkelbol. A cikkben sok a hiba, parat itt megmutatok, ezek apropojan nehol elkalandozgatok. Nem lennek fair B.C.-hez, ha elhallgatnam, hogy az itt felsorolt tenyek kozul nehanyat nem ismerhetett 1987-ben. A szogletes zarojelek kozt sajat, a roviditesek miatt szukseges beszurasaim vannak. >>.. Take a 200 unit protein, with 20 possible different amino acids in any >>sequence, ..... it's [weight is] larger than the total weight of the known >>universe. ......... the proteins that ARE produced [by living organisms] >>represent an enormously narrow selection of the proteins that could be >>produced. ***** ....[during evolution] incompatible compounds have been >>eliminated [by selection ]. ....you have to regard the bioengineered >>organisms [and products of petrochemical industry] as evolutionary >>rejects. ......the new organisms created by genetic engineering are >>likely to contain genetic combinations that were, so to >>speak, once tried out during the course of evolution and rejected. A csillagokig tarto ervelest annak alatamasztasara szoktak elohozni, hogy az evolucio soran kialakultaknal sokkal jobb feherjek is letezhetnek. A fejlodes soran nem volt ido az osszes lehetseges feherje kompatibilitasat vegigprobalni. Egy friss dolgozat azt allitja, hogy kb. 7000 rovid, 15-45 aminosavbol allo peptid kombinalgatasaval alakultak ki a ma letezo feherjek. Mar csak azert is messze vagyunk az optimumtol, mert egyetlen feherje osszes lehetseges konformaciojanak vegigprobalasara sem lehetett az univerzumnak eleg ideje (a mukodes a szerkezet fuggvenye). Az evolucionak nem volt tul sok ideje. Fred Hoyle nepszeru hasonlata az elet kialakulasara: egy ocskavas telepen orkan sopor vegig, es a sok kacatbol egy Boeing 747-et fuj ossze. >>.................... I realize that the industry has often argued that its >>new organisms ought to be regarded as harmless because all of the genetic >>combinations have been tried out in the evolutionary past and, in that >>sense, the industry's creations are not really "new". Szabadalmaztatni lehet genetikai manipulaciokkal letrehozott organizmusokat. A szabadalom targyanak valami ujdonsagnak kell lennie. Buta lenne az, aki termekerol azt allitana, hogy nem uj. Az elso szabadalmaztatott organizmus a Harvard egy egere volt. (Az egerrol keszitett szep muszaki rajzot is mellekeltek a kerelemhez, ahogy az eloirt.) Egy rakot okozo human gent ultettek bele, hogy az emberi betegseg gyogyitasaval allaton kiserletezhessenek. >>... there is no medical value in [engineered] human insulin. Jok az eselyek, hogy egy-ket even belul az inzulin hianyabol fakado betegseg gyogyitasa egyszeri, vagy par evenkent megismetelendo "shot"-tal megoldodik, hala a rekombinans inzulinnak. Ha jol tudom, allatkiserletekben mukodott a kovetkezo modszer: kis soretekkel a gen csupasz DNS-et izomszovetbe lottek, a sejtmagokban elakadt DNS aztan beepult az allat DNS-ebe, es a genrol szintetizalodott is egy darabig a mukodokepes feherje. A gyogyito alkalmazashoz - nincs mese - human DNS es rekombinans modszerek kellenek. Idegen organizmus (sertes) genjerol az aktiv idegen feherjet sejtjeink aligha termelnek tartosan, figyelembe veve az inzulin eloallitasanak komplikacioit. A genrol szintetizalt peptid lanc ugyanis meg csak felkesz termek, az un. proinzulin. Meg ket kovalens kotest is ki kell alakitani a lanc tavoli cystein aminosavjai kozt, ezt a feherjet egy specialis sejtszervecskebe kell szallitani, ott kb egy- harmadat le kell csippenteni, a daraboknak szep rendezetten kis vezikulumokba kell kristalyosodni. A ver glukoz szintje novekedesenek specialis jelere a vezikulumok a sejtmembranon at kell jutniuk, hogy az inzulin a veraramba keruljon. Ez az a fazis, amikor injekcioval a verbe juttatott sertes inzulin, vagy ne adj Isten!, a bakteriumban termelt human inzulin potolhatja azt az inzulint, aminek termeleserol a paciens szervezete megfeledkezett. Ma tehat rendszeresen kell az (akarmilyen eredetu) inzulin feherjet adagolni, mig a soretes puskas genterapiaval az inzulin genje (DNS) kerulne a szervezetbe, es errol a sablonrol a szervezet sajat apparatusa gyartana mar folyamatosan a feherjet. Ez pedig sokaknak "medical value", masoknak maga az Elet lenne. >>..... In reality human insulin has been produced for a very simple >>purpose: to maintain [pharmaceutical company] Eli Lilly's monopoly on >>insulin. Eleg vad allitas. Meg evekkel ezelott az MTA SZBK Biokemiai Intezete is sikerrel klonozta a human inzulint. Aligha Eli Lilly monopoliuma erdekeben. >>Everyone agrees that the most important use of genetic engineering would >>be to produce vaccines, particularly for malaria. Aligha! A malaria sulyos ugyan, de ritkan halalos. A mersekelt egovon nem terjed, evi ezer megbetegedes (ebbol ot eset halalos) fordul pl. elo az USA-ban, 99%-ban kulfoldrol hazaterok a megbetegedok. A tropusokon lakok nagy resze szuletesetol rezisztens a betegseggel szemben. A kinin vagy primakin emberben hatasos gyogyszere a fertozesnek, a szunyogok irtasa hatasos modja a jarvanyok megelozosenek. Cystic fibrozis, multiple sclerosis, a rak sok fajtaja, AIDS nehany a betegsegek kozul, amik terapiaja valoszinuleg tobb hozzaerto fontossagi sorrendjeben a malaria vaccina fejleszte ele kerulnek. Milliokat erintenek, tobbseguk megelozhetetlen, gyogyitasuk hagyomanyos modszerekkel nem ment. Forradalmin uj kozelitest adhat a genszebeszet. Az immunizalas nagyon jol mehet genetic engineering nelkul is, Pasteaur mar szaz eve immunizalt. Formaldehydben elpusztitott korokozoval lehet pl. a szervezetet felkesziteni az igazi, elo korokozo elleni kuzdelemre. Klasszikus modszerevel halad sikeresen Salk (a gyerekbenulas vedooltasanak feltalaloja) az AIDS elleni immunizalas megoldasa fele. Eppenseggel gensebeszeti modszerrel is lehet inaktivalni a korokozot, Hepatitis B ellen tesztelnek ilyent peldaul. >>[A Genentech es a kapitalizmus szidasa kovetkezik, hogy a WHO altal >>tamogatott kutatas eredmenyezte vaccina gyartasara nem vallalkozott, >>mivel azt nem talalta hasznot hozonak.] Egy laborban kidolgozott es allatokon kiprobalt anyag meg tiz evre van az alkalmazastol. Oriasi penzek is kellenek a klinikai probakhoz. Miert kockaztasson egy vallalat, miert fogjon ujba, ha nem ert a dologhoz, ha nem vag az ugy a profiljaba, ha minden elemzo termekszukitest tanacsol neki? A Genentech vallalat, torveny kotelezi, mint minden for-profit- organizationt, hogy haszonra torekedjek. A Genentech a gensebeszeti ipar zaszlovivoje. Human novekedesi hormont, infarktus elleni gyogyszert gyart. Novekedesi es taplalkozasi rendellenesseget gyogyito inzulin-szeru novekedesi faktort, tudorakot kezelo interferont, AIDS-re hatasos gatlo termeket, rakos osztodast leallito tumor necrosis faktort, szulesi komplikaciokra szant Relaxint, cystic fibrozisra remelhetoleg hato deoxiribonuclease-t szabadalmaztatott vagy tesztel. Baj, hogy profit orientalt? Nem jo munkara osztonzi oket ez? A piac torvenyei nem fosztottak meg az emberiseget egy uj gyogymodtol. A teszteles kozepso vagy utolso fazisaban tart 5-6 malaria ellen immunizalo termek. Smithkline, Chiron, Biosine, W.Reed (biotech cegek) ugy kalkulaltak, hogy ebbol a termekbol profitalhatnak. >..elfeledkezunk a szelesebb osszefuggesekrol, a tarsadalmi kontextusrol.. A szelesebb osszefuggeseket is vitatja a szakma es a nyilvanossag. A munka nagyon szigoru normak szerint folyik. Az allatkiserletek komolyan korlatozottak, a genterapia engedelyeztetese rendkivul alapos folyamat, a Human Genom program nagy penzeket szan az etikai, moralis, tarsadalmi kerdesek megvizsgalasara. Ugyanakkor az is vilagos, hogy nem lehet minden baj (baleset, gondatlansag, visszaeles) elkerulesere garanciat adni, vallalt esszeru kockazatokkal kell elnunk, ahogy azt most is tesszuk, novenyvedok, hibridek es automobilok koraban. A fejlodes felerositve sok korabbi problemat ujra felvet. Ujszulott korunk fejformaja alapjan korabban szeklabfaragasra itelhettek, most szuletesunk elott genjeinkbe nezve kizarhatnak a zeneiskolaba felvehetok, vagy repulogep pilotakent alkalmazhatok korebol. Mi tortenik, ha bevalik a diabetest gyogyito fent leirt eljaras, csak epp nem lesz penz a sok millio beteg kezelesere? Igazsagtalan lenne, ha a matematika felveteli a jelentkezo MATH+ genjenek megletet tesztelne? > ...ajanlom a Science for the People-t. Akit a genmanipulas erdekel, az olvassa a Scientific Americant, vagy a New York Times Science mellekletet. Ami ott talalhato az megbizhato is, idoszeru is. Posfai Janos Cold Spring Harbor, New York