>Does anyone know of any good Hungarian WWW sites?

Try http://www.hungary.com, it contains many of them and links to most other
ones.

Gabor D. Farkas

At 12:13 PM 4/7/96 -0400, Sam Stowe wrote:

>In article >,  (George
>Szaszvari) writes:
>
>>I think, but perhaps it's true that
>>Hungarian humour is better known in literature (something recent I read
>>called *Under a Frog's Arse* was a big success in Britain a couple of
>>years back, can't recall the author offhand.)
>
>The author's name is Tibor Fischer. An absolutely hilarious and
>heart-breaking book about Hungary in the 1940s and 1950s. It's one of the
>best novels I've read in years.
>Sam Stowe

Thanks for this.  I started reading that book a couple of years ago and it
was recalled from me by another user.  Then things in my life got busy and I
forgot about the book.  I read about half of it, and yes, it is hilarious.
Now that I got the title and author I'll get it again.  Can't wait.  Thanks!

Joe Szalai

Hello
        I must apologize, but I have a lot of to do. About Dabrony: There is in
today's
Hungary a Dabrony in Veszprem county on the north slope of Bakony mountain
about 20 mails of town Papa. If your great-grandfather was born there, you
could
research in county archive in Veszprem. I have researched my ancestors in mid
70-th
without any difficulties in the state archive the satisfactory county. They are
all
register of births, marriages and deaths from the mid of XVIII century.
        If you want to research yourself, probably you must make a request to s
t
 ate
archive of county Veszprem. It is very important to have a very reliable
starting
point. A person with a reliable date and place of birth! The best find a
teacher of history
on Veszprem, who could help you.
        Hungary has a new Public Record Regulation Law since 1994. It is not mo
r
 e
liberal as the old (communist) was. I hope in the private interesse has
remained the
old rules. You must understand the today's bosses have a lot of fear of his
past.
        By the way there is an another Dabrony in today's Ukraine. Fels  (upper
)
Dabrony about 20 mails from Munkacs (Mukatshewo). If your great-grandfather
was born there, the thing is more difficult. Probably the river Pecs could be a
essential
proof, but unhappily I must find some local maps. This river Pecs have to be a
very
small creek. I do'nt find it on the hydrographic chart of Hungary.
        And at last: You find at least 2 dozen villages in Hungary wich name be
g
 ins
as Dabr/Dobr... . In the old Slavic dobro has the meaning "good" and the
original
inhabitant the Carpatian basin were Slavic tribes.

Andra's Kornai writes in Hungary 631:

>Just to toss in a bit of Hungarian content I thought I'd share a couple of
>news items my search profile picked up:
>
>TOKYO, April 2 (Kyodo) -- Sony Corp. said Tuesday it will build an audio
>visual equipment manufacturing plant in Hungary, becoming the first Japanese
>electronics maker to set up a production base in the country. (...) The
>facility, with an initial workforce of about 200, will produce compact disk
>players at a monthly rate of 40,000 units.
>
>AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) -- The Dutch consumer electronics giant Philips
NV
>said Tuesday it has bought a car radio and tape deck plant in Hungary. (...)
>The privately-owned Euroton factory about 46 miles southwest of Budapest
>employs 1,100 people and has annual production capacities of 800,000 car
>radios and three million tape decks.  Philips said Euroton will be Philips
Car
>Systems' third production site in Europe, with the other two in Rambouillet,
>France, and Wetzlar, Germany.
>
>Being a cosmopolitan sort I never believed that Japanese or Dutch workers
are
>intrinsically superior to Hungarian workers, and I see no reason not to
>applaud the fact that Hungary is slowly but steadily becoming a more
integral
>part of the global economy. Even Noam Chomsky, who sees multinational
>corporations as fundamentally evil, would have a hard time to put a negative
>spin on the preceding news items, but no doubt someone on HUNGARY will
>succeed...
>
>Andra1s Kornai

The news of the planned Sony plant is definitely good news.  As for the
Philips
purchase, only time will tell.  Let's hope they didn't just buy the
competition
in order to eliminate it.

Ferenc

Joe Szalai wrote:
>
> At 08:48 AM 4/5/96 -0800, Doug Hormann wrote:
>
> >Since the topic has been predominantly economic systems I
> >felt that I should include such information that would have an effect on
> >my personal biases.   As far as condemning my candor, didn't you tell us
> >about your income just a few posts ago?
>
> Doug,
>
> I was not condemning your candor.  Quite the contrary.  I appreciate your
> openness and honesty.  They're two caracteristics that I would never
> criticize.  I may not agree with some of your economic or political views
> but your willingness to be honest should be applauded by all.
>
> >Perhaps we could start a thread on flyfishing in Hungary.
>
> Perhaps.  However, I've developed a couple of successful techniques which I
> consider a trade secret.  But just out of curiosity, do you do your fishing
> close to large urban areas or out in the wilds?  Personally, I've gotten
> lucky in both.
>
> Joe Szalai


Living in the Pacific Northwest, there are some pretty fantastic
possibilities.  I live about 20 miles west of Portland, OR and within
two hours drive I can fish several blue ribbon trout streams.  The
Deschutes, Metolius, Trask, Nehalem and Kilchis Rivers, and only a bit
further the John Day river just to name a few. I won't claim to be and
expert flyfisher but I enjoy it.  I started flyfishing in Montana as a
child.  My father was a teacher in Hardin, MT. which is near the
confluence of the Yellowstone and Bighorn rivers.

How about you?  I've heard some wonderful things about Canadian fishing,
but I wouldn't have a clue about Hungarian fishing.  Is flyfishing
popular there?


Regards,


Doug Hormann

> Felado :  [Canada]
> One of the best known slogans of the 'Quiet Revolution' in Quebec was/is
> "Maitre chez nous".  It means "masters of our own house", or something like
(...)
Well, I happen to strongly dislike the idea of the nation-state, and have
little sympathy for the Quebec cause. When Margaret Thatcher vehemently
opposes closer British ties with the EU, it is because such ties lead to a
loss of British "mastery of their own house". I agree they do, and I see it as
all the more reason to have something over and above the nation-state.  The
Irish, masters of their own house, used not to pay unemployment benefits to
women, and would have continued this policy indefinitely (after all, Ireland
is a Catholic country, strongly believing in the traditional family model)
were it not for the women who took the case to the EC courts which forced
Ireland to get a bit closer to the 20th century. In short, I'd much rather
have faceless unelected bureaucrats in Brussels deciding certain matters than
the duly elected representatives of the people, especially if they are like
Milosevic or Meciar. Altogether, Eastern Europe could do well with a bit of
Western leadership, and I don't see why Klaus should be the only one to openly
acknowledge this.

> I'm very happy that Sony and Philips are going to set up shop in Hungary.
> Other multinationals have already done so.  This is good.  Yes?  I have one
> question though.  How many Hungarian companies have opened shop in other
> countries?  Are there any Hungarian multinationals?
Yes there are, though they are small. It's like the Hungarian mountains --
they sure exist but people coming from the Himalayas will not be impressed.

> "maitre chez nous", or is that an archaic concept when multinationals rule
> the world?
I think it is an archaic concept, just like female genital mutilation.  But
the fact that something is archaic, barbaric, outdated, or stupid does not
necessarily mean that it won't be with us for a long time to come.

On another note, try to transport the Quebec situation to Transylvania.
Hungarians there would be overjoyed by the kind of autonomy Quebec has, though
I doubt the Romanians would take kindly to living under the same kind of
repressive language laws the anglophone population of Quebec has to put up
with. Sure as hell, the multinationals all pulled out of Montreal (just
compare some basic economic statistics for Toronto and Montreal for the past
twenty years) because they can't get high quality employees who put up with
all the nationalistic crap you have there. I would definitely refuse to work
there as long as it meant that I had to put my son in a French-speaking (and
Catholic!) public school system. Let them be masters of their own house, sure,
and if they don't want to flush the toilet it's nobody's business but theirs.
They just shouldn't expect to be able to hire a good baby-sitter unless they
change their disgusting habits inside their very own house. Remeber that rural
county in Texas that was ready to enact some anti-gay legislation but then
learned that Apple and Intel wouldn't build plants there if they do? This is
a very clear case of one part of the world, liberal Silicon Valley, imposing
its moral code on another, much more conservative, part, by purely negative
economic pressure. It's not that Intel said "we will boycott you" it's just
"get your act together or we'll leave you alone". Way to go!

Andra1s Kornai

At 23:41 06/04/96 -0500, Martha Bihari wrote:

<va'g va'g>

>"Humorban nem ismerek tre'fa't."  Frigyes Karinthy - Hungary's greatest
>humorist.
>(Will someone please try to translate this to English????)
>

Kedves Martha!

How about "I don't know what's so funny about humour!"

Tisztelettel,

Johanne

Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 

Jon Sorenson wants to contact a student at the University of Debrecen (I
assume this is KLTE?)  What e
        What exactly do you want to know?

Udv.,
Be'la

At 01:09 PM 4/6/96 -0400, Johanne L. Tournier wrote:

>Oh, no! Don't tell me he was *your* mentor?! That Lennon was more confused
>than the original one! (Lenin, that is).

For that reason alone my choice is not a bad one.

>I would have thought from his earlier comments that Joe's anthem would have
>been *Dust in the Wind,* by Kansas - you know, "All we are is dust in the
>wind . . ."

Close.  But no cigar.  Peter Paul and Mary's "Blowing in the Wind" (I think
that's what the song is called) spoke to me on a more personal note.  The
song told me that whatever I wanted was not written in a book or spoken by a
leader but blowing in the wind.  I took the cue and never looked back.

>And, sorry, Madonna is most definitely *N*O*T* one of my mentors, material
>or otherwise!

I guess we all have our cross to bear.

Joe Szalai

Imagining a place where human beings are stripped of their humanity is not
exactly to my liking.
Imagining a place with no national borders, no religion and no possessions
may be worthy of a child but has no real merit for any thinking person.
It makes for pleasant listening while puffing on hemp but very weak
philosophy.

Hi;
  I am planning a trip for the summer on AMTRACK!   It will be a cross
country - USA.   I am planning to go to Lancaster, Chicago, Memphis,
New Orleans, Miami, Houston, San Antonio Glacier Park, Seatle, and LA.
4 weeks (30 days).

I am looking for 2 extra people to join our group!  If you are
interested send me an email at:  

We  are planning to start in NYC - we live there:)  We will show you
NYC if you have never been there.   I am mostly looking for someone to
be like a friend in travel... eventhough I am also the travel agent
(there is some benefits:)  FUN, CHEAP is the goal here.  I have done a
similar trip to Europe.  I think it will be fun if we have more people
to travel with.

INTERESTED?  Drop me a note!  I will tell you more!   There is also a
camping tour of the National Parks for 10 days (Start from Las Vegas
to Grand Canyon, Zion and more)  Hope to hear from you soon.

Take care.
Ken

  I am mostly looking for someone to be like a friend in travel...
eventhough Iam also the travel agent (there is some benefits:)  FUN,
CHEAP is the goal here.  I have done a similar trip to Europe.  I
think it will be fun if we have more people to travel with.

INTERESTED?  Drop me a note!  I will tell you more!   There is also a
camping tour of the National Parks for 10 days (Start from Las Vegas
to Grand Canyon, Zion Parks and more.

PS>  I will prefer to travel with people from 20-26 years old.  I am
23 and my current partner is 21.

At 23:41 06/04/96 -0500, Martha Bihari wrote:

<va'g va'g>

>"Humorban nem ismerek tre'fa't."  Frigyes Karinthy - Hungary's greatest
>humorist.
>(Will someone please try to translate this to English????)
>

Kedves Martha!

How about "I don't know what's so funny about humour!"

Tisztelettel,

Johanne

Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 

(I am re-posting this, because it doesn't seem to have been posted the first
time)

In >, Jon Sorenson
> writes:
>Members of the List,
>
>  I would appreciate any help on contacting a student at the University in
>Debredcen,  Thanks in advance for any information anyone might have, Jon
>Sorenson

Try the web of the University in Debrecen: www.lib.klte.hu/

Johanne's network is down.  She has asked this to be posted in response to
M. Bihari's posting.
>At 23:41 06/04/96 -0500, Martha Bihari wrote:
>
><va'g va'g>
>
>>"Humorban nem ismerek tre'fa't."  Frigyes Karinthy - Hungary's greatest
>>humorist.
>>(Will someone please try to translate this to English????)
>>
>
>Kedves Martha!
>
>How about "I don't know what's so funny about humour!"
>
>Tisztelettel,
>
>Johanne
>
>Johanne L. Tournier
>e-mail - 
>
>(I am re-posting this, because it doesn't seem to have been posted the first
>time)
>
>
>

>Kedves Martha!
>
>How about "I don't know what's so funny about humour!"
>
>Tisztelettel,

Johanne:

I think so far, your interpretation could well the be closest!  (Leave it to
a non-hungarian speaking individual - Good for You!!!
Aniko

Dear Martha:
>
>"Humorban nem ismerek tre'fa't."  Frigyes Karinthy - Hungary's greatest
>humorist.
>(Will someone please try to translate this to English????)

Frigyes's sense of humour comes out incredibly in these few words;  tough to
translate!!!  "nem ismerek" can be used to relay several different meanings.
(not-known to me, unknown to me,  unrecognizeable to me, unfamiliar to me,
could even portray unacceptable to me and pushing it a bit, alien to me).
Tre'fa, likewise, can be interpreted as joke, jest, fun.  Using the wrong
word to portray either of above, could potentially throw the entire intent
of the statement way off track.

The statement when translated literally:  "In humour (take your pick of "nem
ismerek" ditto of a/the joke/fun/jest".

My best *guess* in English would be  "In humour, fun is unfamiliar to me" or
"Fun is unfamiliar to me in humour".  I rather liked Gabor Farkas'
interpretation also: "Humour is no joking matter"..

Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Aniko.
>
>

Daer Andras:I can not agree with you whole heartadly.I know what is going on
in Qubec.I lived in Montreal for quiet a while,but the very moment the Party
qubecois won the election and started to restrain our freedom,I moved with
thousands of others to Toronto.The trouble is realy that the French were not
free to live learn and work in there own language.The church was the Grand
Master,and once they came out from under this rule they found out they can
do things like the rest of the world can.See 1967 world fair.I can not and
will not agree with the rstrictions they put on peole.I don't know how else
they can succeed,but to lose Quebec would be a very bad situation for
Canada,since then maybe the other provinces would clamour for there own laws
etc.
I would rather see a united Canada where life is still good,where peole
still like each other,and not looking for divisions.I am not hoping to
change your mind,but somehow I hope this situation will be solved for the
better for all of us,and won't create another Ireland or Yugoslavia.
With my compliments to your writing:Andy Kozma>> Felado :
 [Canada]
>> One of the best known slogans of the 'Quiet Revolution' in Quebec was/is
>> "Maitre chez nous".  It means "masters of our own house", or something like
>(...)
>Well, I happen to strongly dislike the idea of the nation-state, and have
>little sympathy for the Quebec cause. When Margaret Thatcher vehemently
>opposes closer British ties with the EU, it is because such ties lead to a
>loss of British "mastery of their own house". I agree they do, and I see it as
>all the more reason to have something over and above the nation-state.  The
>Irish, masters of their own house, used not to pay unemployment benefits to
>women, and would have continued this policy indefinitely (after all, Ireland
>is a Catholic country, strongly believing in the traditional family model)
>were it not for the women who took the case to the EC courts which forced
>Ireland to get a bit closer to the 20th century. In short, I'd much rather
>have faceless unelected bureaucrats in Brussels deciding certain matters than
>the duly elected representatives of the people, especially if they are like
>Milosevic or Meciar. Altogether, Eastern Europe could do well with a bit of
>Western leadership, and I don't see why Klaus should be the only one to openly
>acknowledge this.
>
>> I'm very happy that Sony and Philips are going to set up shop in Hungary.
>> Other multinationals have already done so.  This is good.  Yes?  I have one
>> question though.  How many Hungarian companies have opened shop in other
>> countries?  Are there any Hungarian multinationals?
>Yes there are, though they are small. It's like the Hungarian mountains --
>they sure exist but people coming from the Himalayas will not be impressed.
>
>> "maitre chez nous", or is that an archaic concept when multinationals rule
>> the world?
>I think it is an archaic concept, just like female genital mutilation.  But
>the fact that something is archaic, barbaric, outdated, or stupid does not
>necessarily mean that it won't be with us for a long time to come.
>
>On another note, try to transport the Quebec situation to Transylvania.
>Hungarians there would be overjoyed by the kind of autonomy Quebec has, though
>I doubt the Romanians would take kindly to living under the same kind of
>repressive language laws the anglophone population of Quebec has to put up
>with. Sure as hell, the multinationals all pulled out of Montreal (just
>compare some basic economic statistics for Toronto and Montreal for the past
>twenty years) because they can't get high quality employees who put up with
>all the nationalistic crap you have there. I would definitely refuse to work
>there as long as it meant that I had to put my son in a French-speaking (and
>Catholic!) public school system. Let them be masters of their own house, sure,
>and if they don't want to flush the toilet it's nobody's business but theirs.
>They just shouldn't expect to be able to hire a good baby-sitter unless they
>change their disgusting habits inside their very own house. Remeber that rural
>county in Texas that was ready to enact some anti-gay legislation but then
>learned that Apple and Intel wouldn't build plants there if they do? This is
>a very clear case of one part of the world, liberal Silicon Valley, imposing
>its moral code on another, much more conservative, part, by purely negative
>economic pressure. It's not that Intel said "we will boycott you" it's just
>"get your act together or we'll leave you alone". Way to go!
>
>Andra1s Kornai
>
>

I thank you for your note Eva.You did not hde to do that,since I believe a
lot of us ow you for the work you are doing.
Personaly I think,for me at least,it is not worth while to write to that
bunch of peole,since in that case we just give them more ground to let them
tell there twisted storys,and fuel the discussion.
At the same time most of us who emigrated either to US or Canada and have
chikdren,those kids realy (I don't think)care about what is going on in
these threads.
So maybe with the new genaration they will forget about these
discussions,since they deffinitly have other things to worry about.Lets face
it we are dying breed,who suffered enough for one reason or another.
With this I might start up another discussion,but at the same time I just
wonder who is participating in Magyar Haz,and what is the real reason behind
it.As far as I am concerned I never put mu foot in any of them,and I never
applyd to the Joint either,nor any other agency in my life.
I am sorry you did not have a passover dinner,you should have taken up the
invitation in the Menorapaper wich one of the great Hungarians is objecting
about.Don't feel bad,I was invited but declined,since I am a Jew,but not a
religous one.
Keep up the good work:Andy

Martha Bihari wrote:


>"Humorban nem ismerek tre'fa't."  Frigyes Karinthy - Hungary's greatest
>humorist.
>(Will someone please try to translate this to English????)

        What about: Humor for me is not a joke!

        Eva Balogh

I just noticed that Gabor Farkas had provided a very good translation, but
only after I sent off mine which is very similar to his but I think his
sounds better.

        Eva Balogh

I found the exchange between Joe Szalai and Andras Kornai very, very
interesting, and I will state at the very beginning that I absolutely,
without any qualifications, stand on Andra's's side.

JSz:
>> One of the best known slogans of the 'Quiet Revolution' in Quebec was/is
>> "Maitre chez nous".  It means "masters of our own house", or something like

AK:
>Well, I happen to strongly dislike the idea of the nation-state, and have
>little sympathy for the Quebec cause.

        So do I. If I had lived in Quebec at the time of the so-called
'Quiet Revolution,' I would have immediately moved to some other part of
Canada. I find the French-Canadian human rights violations repugnant. What I
am amazed at is Joe Szalai's schezophrenic worldview. On the one hand, he is
a dye-hard liberal (if not a socialist), on the other hand, he is also a man
who sympathizes with nationalism, be that Canadian, Quebecois, or Hungarian.
The funny thing is that it is the right in Hungary which is against foreign
capital coming into the county. So, Joe is in swell company! He would be
surprised when he would meet them face to face!

AK:
>When Margaret Thatcher vehemently
>opposes closer British ties with the EU, it is because such ties lead to a
>loss of British "mastery of their own house".

        Although Margaret Thatcher has many admirable qualities, her
opposition to the European Union is not one of them.

AK:
>I agree they do, and I see it as
>all the more reason to have something over and above the nation-state.  The
>Irish, masters of their own house, used not to pay unemployment benefits to
>women, and would have continued this policy indefinitely (after all, Ireland
>is a Catholic country, strongly believing in the traditional family model)
>were it not for the women who took the case to the EC courts which forced
>Ireland to get a bit closer to the 20th century. In short, I'd much rather
>have faceless unelected bureaucrats in Brussels deciding certain matters than
>the duly elected representatives of the people, especially if they are like
>Milosevic or Meciar.

        Indeed, the Eastern European countries, if they are serious about
their desire of joining the Union, have to conform--to conform to, most
often, a higher standard, for example, as far as their legal system is
concerned. A few years ago Hungary abolished the death penalty, and I am
sure that the lawmakers kept in mind that a member country of the European
Union can't have the death penalty on the books. Slovakia's incredible new
laws concerning state security have been already scrutinized by the European
Union and were found wanting.

AK:
>Altogether, Eastern Europe could do well with a bit of
>Western leadership, and I don't see why Klaus should be the only one to openly
>acknowledge this.

        Quite right--the Czechs simply copied certain laws (for example,
commercial laws) from Western European countries while the other Eastern
European countries, including Hungary, are trying to reinvent the wheel. But
the same thing could be said of pension plans and medical insurance.

JSz:
>> "maitre chez nous", or is that an archaic concept when multinationals rule
>> the world?

AK:
>I think it is an archaic concept, just like female genital mutilation.  But
>the fact that something is archaic, barbaric, outdated, or stupid does not
>necessarily mean that it won't be with us for a long time to come.

        Yes, it is an archaic concept but I am an optimist: sooner or later
it will disappear from the face of the earth--or at least from Europe. It is
unlikely though that you and I are going to see the day.

AK:
>I would definitely refuse to work
>there as long as it meant that I had to put my son in a French-speaking (and
>Catholic!) public school system.

        Same here. I hope everybody knows that according to the law,
immigrants' children must be educated in French-language schools. They don't
have the right to chose. I think that this is outrageous!! A great deal of
French Canada's problem was rooted in the education system which was
entirely in the church's hands--and it was a church from the Middle Ages!!!

>Let them be masters of their own house, sure,
>and if they don't want to flush the toilet it's nobody's business but theirs.
>They just shouldn't expect to be able to hire a good baby-sitter unless they
>change their disgusting habits inside their very own house. Remeber that rural
>county in Texas that was ready to enact some anti-gay legislation but then
>learned that Apple and Intel wouldn't build plants there if they do? This is
>a very clear case of one part of the world, liberal Silicon Valley, imposing
>its moral code on another, much more conservative, part, by purely negative
>economic pressure. It's not that Intel said "we will boycott you" it's just
>"get your act together or we'll leave you alone". Way to go!

        Fully agree.

        Eva Balogh

> >At 23:41 06/04/96 -0500, Martha Bihari wrote:
> >
> >>"Humorban nem ismerek tre'fa't."  Frigyes Karinthy - Hungary's greatest
> >>humorist.
> >>(Will someone please try to translate this to English????)
> >>

    Friends,

       I would translate this brilliant  sentence by Karinthy as,
    "I do not joke with humor". He is saying that humor is a very
    serious business.
                            Amos

In article >,  (JFerengi)
says:
>
>Imagining a place where human beings are stripped of their humanity is not
>exactly to my liking.

Neither to mine; lighten up, will ya? Lennon isn't advocating inhumanity,
he's just getting people to *imagine*...art isn't always (or even usually)
as literal-minded as you seem to think, umm, except, perhaps stuff like
Country and Western...Hey, I'm goin' to Jackson....goodbye, that's all
she wrote..yeah, ;-)

--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
 Independent Commodore Products Users' Group UK * C=64 * Acorn..RISC OS
 IBM PeeCee..OS/2 Warp * Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list

Hello Brian,

I live in Brattleboro, Vermont and couldn't believe it when I saw you were
learning Hungarian and lived In NoHo.  I cannot teach you, because I am
myself just getting ready to purchase a Hungarian lanugage tutor.  (Do you
have a recommendation?  I went to Schoenhoffs (sp?) in Cambridge last week
and looked into a couple of different book/tape tutors, but I recently
heard of a more comprehensive program from a University... I'm not sure
yet which route I'll take.)  A friend of mine in Brattleboro is also going
to study with me.  Perhaps we three could get together a couple of times a
month to talk and study.  What do you think?

I would also love to talk with you about your teaching assignment in
Hungary.  I plan to travel to Hungary next year with plans to study
Hungarian folk music in Budapest.  (I am getting a hurdy-gurdy this summer
and want very much to learn the Hungarian style of playing...)  I have
considered finding a teaching experience while I am there to support my
stay in Hungary.  It would be great to talk with you about this. (or
anyone else who has info may be reading this.)  Could you drop me an
e-mail message at  ?  Address your message to Cynthia.

I was introduced to a Hungarian woman at a folkdance this winter.  I will
try to get in touch with her.  Maybe she'd be willing to get together with
us...    Good luck!

Cynthia

At 10:24 PM 4/7/96, Johanne L. Tournier wrote:
>At 23:41 06/04/96 -0500, Martha Bihari wrote:
>
><va'g va'g>
>
>>"Humorban nem ismerek tre'fa't."  Frigyes Karinthy - Hungary's greatest
>>humorist.
>>(Will someone please try to translate this to English????)
>>
>
>Kedves Martha!
>
>How about "I don't know what's so funny about humour!"
>
>Tisztelettel,
>
>Johanne
>
>Johanne L. Tournier
>e-mail - 

Humour is no laughing matter!

Peter

Peter I. Hidas

Hungarian Studies
Department Of Russian and Slavic Studies
McGill University
Montreal, Quebec, Canada

At 9:26 PM 4/8/96, Csanady Miklos wrote:
>Edwin Durrett wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know of a village in Hungary (or possibly pre-World War I
>> Hungary - Transylvania?) that was called Os Csanad...
>>
>> Does this town still exist ?  Was it renamed ?  Is it now in Romania?
>>
>> Thanx in advance...
>>
>> -Ed
>> -
>>   EDWIN DURRETT   Csanad. It was a village, which
>does not exist now. I found az article in a book,
>which was published in 1851(!!) that "this is a hungarian village, in Pest-Sol
t
>county
>near Baja on the bank of Sarkoz stream. It is near the Danube (one hour walk
>from here),
>has 2062 citizen." As far as I know, It is was in the territory of today's
>Hungary. a
>whole diocese was called csanad, so there was a bishop living there (in the
>days of
>Saint Stephan King in the tenth century).
>Miklos
>--
>Miklos Csanady Sch.P.
>Second address : 
>our web site: http://www.piar.hu

According to Fenyes there were a number of Csanads in the 19th c. in Hungary:

Csanad (village, Pest-Solt)
Csanad (hamlet, Pest Solt)
Nemet-Csanad (Torontal county)
Racz-Csanad (Torontal)
Uj-Csanad (Csanad county)

I am glad to be of service.


Peter I. Hidas

Hungarian Studies
Department Of Russian and Slavic Studies
McGill University
Montreal, Quebec, Canada

At 02:40 PM 4/8/96 -0700, Eva Balogh wrote:

>I found the exchange between Joe Szalai and Andras Kornai very, very
>interesting, and I will state at the very beginning that I absolutely,
>without any qualifications, stand on Andra's's side.

Well!  I haven't been this surprised since late last week!

>What I am amazed at is Joe Szalai's schezophrenic worldview. On the one
>hand, he is a dye-hard liberal (if not a socialist), on the other hand, he
>is also a man who sympathizes with nationalism, be that Canadian,
>Quebecois, or Hungarian.

My 'schizophrenic worldview' is a malady that you and I have in common.  On
the one hand you say things like:

>        Indeed, the Eastern European countries, if they are serious about
>their desire of joining the Union, have to conform--to conform to, most
>often, a higher standard, for example, as far as their legal system is
>concerned.

On the other hand, you write about your support for minority groups, as long
as they are not Quebecois.

Where does the schizophrenic worldview come in?  Well, I see the European
Union as a move towards a monoculture.  Your non-support of the Quebecois,
at least on the surface because of some of their language laws, seems to be
supportive of an anglophone monoculture in North America.  And your economic
views clearly support a capitalist monoculture.

Individuality, self-government, self-rule, and unilaterality are all at odds
with the concept of monoculture.  I hate to use a cliche but somethimes
they're worth a thousand words.  "You can't have it both ways."   Or do you
only support minority groups until they get swallowed up the hegemonic culture?

As for me sympathizing with nationalism you've got it all wrong.  I don't.
I only support a peoples right to self determination.

Joe Szalai

At 11:48 AM 4/5/96 -0400, Johanne L. Tournier, unashamedly wrote:

>In addition to Goldwater and Buckley, both of whom were inspirational to
>me, the third most important person in my (political) development would
>have to be Ayn Rand.

Aha!  The fountainhead of your mentors is quite revealing.  Don't you just
hate yourself?  If you would have also studied Friedrich August von Hayek,
you could be ruling the world today!  Just kidding.

>What I took from these people was the importance of the individual, and the
>fact that the individual *can* make a difference in society. I do not see
>this as necessarily involving exploitation, which seems to be a central
>part of your view of capitalism. I would be interested to hear any examples
>you could dredge up of how these individuals may have been exploiters.

Rand was a novelist and had a stint as a screenwriter.  Buckley was a
columnist, a writer of books (including several spy novels), and a TV host.
Goldwater was a politician.  I had no interest in Buckley and Goldwater
whatsoever.  And I tried reading Rand but never finished any of her works
because she wasn't speaking to me.

You say that your mentors gave you the idea that the individual was
important and could make a difference in society.  When people say that,
what I hear is, "Am I important?" and all the side questions that that
entails, and, "Can I make a difference?"  Those philosophical questions
sound egocentric to me, and, no offense intended, but they're embarrassingly
so.  I'm too much of an existentialist to feel otherwise.

You ask what I could dredge up to show that your mentore 'may have been
exploiters'.  Well, nothing.  Throwing mud at people who influenced you has
nothing to do with the economic theory of 'exploitation'.

Needless to say, my mentors were different.  I was looking for different
things.  Since you gave me some names, I'll give you some.  Sartre, Marx,
Nietzsche, Camus, Genet, Chomsky, and McLuhan come to mind.  I'm not an
expert or a follower of any of them.  (In fact, I have no patience for
followers.)  However, I've taken freely from all of them, as well as from
others, in shaping and reshaping my views.

I enjoyed reading your post.  Thanks for sharing your views.

Joe Szalai

At 05:07 PM 4/7/96 -0700, Andras Kornai wrote:

>Well, I happen to strongly dislike the idea of the nation-state, and have
>little sympathy for the Quebec cause.

I'm not crazy about nation-states either.  If I woke up tomorrow and they
were all gone, that would be great.  I'd be happy and John Lennon would be
happy.  However, I support the francophones desire to preserve their
language and culture in North America.  That dosen't mean that I support
everying that Quebec's "l'office de la langue francais" does.

And now for what seem like a totally different thread,

>> Are there any Hungarian multinationals?

>Yes there are, though they are small.

Can you elaborate?

Joe Szalai

At 09:57 PM 4/7/96 -0400, JFerengi wrote:

>Imagining a place where human beings are stripped of their humanity is not
>exactly to my liking.
>Imagining a place with no national borders, no religion and no possessions
>may be worthy of a child but has no real merit for any thinking person.
>It makes for pleasant listening while puffing on hemp but very weak
>philosophy.

If the philosophy is weak it's because the hemp is weak.  For all I know,
you might be smoking catnip.  Try the real thing and listen to the song again.

Joe Szalai

>According to Fenyes there were a number of Csanads in the 19th c. in Hungary:
>
>Csanad (village, Pest-Solt)
>Csanad (hamlet, Pest Solt)
>Nemet-Csanad (Torontal county)
>Racz-Csanad (Torontal)
>Uj-Csanad (Csanad county)

The three-volume history of Transylvania (Erdely tortenete, by Bela
Kopeczy, ed.) in Transylvania there are a number of Csanad locations:

Nagy-Csanad
Os-Csanad
(also spelled Tschanad, Cenad)

I am glad to be of service.

Peter I. Hidas

Hungarian Studies
Department Of Russian and Slavic Studies
McGill University
Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Dear Friends,

Thanks for all your great help with this ticklish (no pun intended)
translation!

Here is the compiled list of the different/differing interpretations.  It
will at least give those of you who speak/read no Hungarian an inkling, what
a genius Karinthy was.  He could express such a profound statement in four
words that proves nearly impossible to put into another language.

Your contributions:

"I don't tolerate jesting in humor."
Judith Kopacsi

How about "I don't know what's so funny about humour!"
Johanne L. Tournier

"In humour, fun is unfamiliar to me" or
"Fun is unfamiliar to me in humour".
Aniko Dunford

        What about: Humor for me is not a joke!
        Eva Balogh

    "I do not joke with humor". He is saying that humor is a very
    serious business.
        Amos J. Danube

Humour is no laughing matter!
Peter I. Hidas

My favorites are the last two.  Peter's rendition shows that the word "joke"
need not be used; and it is perhaps most natural.  It is, however, still
better to add Amos' second sentence for total clarification.

Once again, thank you all for your participation!

For English-only readers: get any book by George Mikes.  He lived in
England and wrote in English, but retained the Hungarian (Budapest) humor
(OK, in his case, humoUr) that can give you the best examples.  One of them,
"How to Scrape Skies" is about the U.S.A.

Somewhere I have a highly representative example of another writer's
article, as it appeared a few years ago in the New York Times.  If (or
when) I find it, I will send it to all of you.  In the meantime,

        keep those cards and letters (re:humor) coming!

(It surely beats the bickering that used to be the norm here! :)))

Best to you all,
Martha

P.S.  Don't ANY of you know a TYPICAL Hungarian joke to share or is
everyone as busy as I am ????

Andy Kozma wrote:
>
> Hi this is a testAnd this is a reply  :)

Edwin Durrett wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of a village in Hungary (or possibly pre-World War I
> Hungary - Transylvania?) that was called Os Csanad...
>
> Does this town still exist ?  Was it renamed ?  Is it now in Romania?
>
> Thanx in advance...
>
> -Ed
> -
>   EDWIN DURRETT   Csanad. It was a village, which
does not exist now. I found az article in a book,
which was published in 1851(!!) that "this is a hungarian village, in Pest-Solt
county
near Baja on the bank of Sarkoz stream. It is near the Danube (one hour walk
from here),
has 2062 citizen." As far as I know, It is was in the territory of today's
Hungary. a
whole diocese was called csanad, so there was a bishop living there (in the
days of
Saint Stephan King in the tenth century).
Miklos
--
Miklos Csanady Sch.P.
Second address : 
our web site: http://www.piar.hu